Reverse mode and knockdowns

[Penitent]

Let me try to rephrase this...I believe I was grossly misunderstood.  Be polite or you will hurt my feelings.

Almost all weapons that have blunt (primary or alternate mode) have knockdown.
This is true for all weapons except military pick and steel pick.  It doesn't make sense to me.  They lose 2 damage to gain 1 speed, but knockdown is not attached like other weapons.

I suggest that knockdowns get added there.  They aren't that heavy to make them OP I believe...not any more OP than the other weapons in this list anyways:

Bec: pierce/blunt+knockdown
Poleaxe: cut/blunt+knockdown
Warhammer: pierce/blunt+knockdown
Military Hammer: pierce/blunt+knockdown
Steel pick: pierce/blunt w/o knockdown
Military pick:  pierce/blunt w/o knockdown

[Panos_]

Dadaw

[bavvoz]

spears lack knockdown aswell even though staffs have it. (imagine how op warspear as example would be with knockdown)

[Penitent]

spears lack knockdown aswell even though staffs have it. (imagine how op warspear as example would be with knockdown)

Spear is not a primary/alternate mode weapon.  It's not like the weapons listed at all, nor does it relate to the topic title.  It is a completely different animal. 

[Moncho]

Huh, I was convinced that they had kd, but after using the military pick on secondary mode for a couple of maps in DTV, I have not been able to knockdown a single bot. Then using a knobbed mace (24b vs the 26 on the mil pick), I got some kds, so it is not an issue of me not being able to kd because of my build

[Tydeus]

Giving the picks knockdown would create conflicts with other 1h kd weapons if the stats given were actually decent. So don't plan on this happening.

[Phew]

Giving the picks knockdown would create conflicts with other 1h kd weapons if the stats given were actually decent. So don't plan on this happening.

The blunt mode of the Bec makes the Long Hafted Knobbed/Spiked Maces nearly obsolete, yet someone thought that was a good idea. A couple nights ago on NA2, something like 75% of the melee players were running around with Becs in secondary mode.

[gallonigher]

The blunt mode of the Bec makes the Long Hafted Knobbed/Spiked Maces nearly obsolete, yet someone thought that was a good idea. A couple nights ago on NA2, something like 75% of the melee players were running around with Becs in secondary mode.

You blame me, don't you?










  jk

[Phew]

You blame me, don't you?

You can probably take credit for it, as I can't think of anyone else on NA2 that consistently used the blunt mode of the Bec as their primary attack before you.

I remember years ago when the Long Hafted Spiked Mace was considered the "poor man's Bec", and it was the first weapon I bought in cRPG. Then they nerfed the heck out of the LHSM, and gave the Bec a very nice secondary mode. I don't think the Bec secondary needs to be nerfed, but you have to admit it makes most of the other non-crushthrough blunt polearms obsolete, with the exception of Jona's Spammaster's Staff.

I'm still waiting for NA2 to get roll...

[Tydeus]

It really doesn't, Phew. Check the loom "ranks" on the website. The bec has imodbits_polearm, the other two are dedicated kd weapons so they have imodbits_mace. Kind of an Apples & Oranges thing here. Sure it has kd, but the bec suffers a kd penalty due to having below 3 weight, while the others gain weight upon being heirloomed, and therefore get increased kd chance.

[Penitent]

It really doesn't, Phew. Check the loom "ranks" on the website. The bec has imodbits_polearm, the other two are dedicated kd weapons so they have imodbits_mace. Kind of an Apples & Oranges thing here. Sure it has kd, but the bec suffers a kd penalty due to having below 3 weight, while the others gain weight upon being heirloomed, and therefore get increased kd chance.

Good counter point-- it's important to look at all loom levels for balance.  Still, the fact that the unloomed bec kind of makes the unloomed long maces redundant is relevant.

Also, in terms of game-play usefulness, it's my experience that +1 speed is actually more desirable than a small weight increase, actually giving the bec the edge in my opinion.  Perhaps not everyone has that opinion though.

[Phew]

It really doesn't, Phew. Check the loom "ranks" on the website. The bec has imodbits_polearm, the other two are dedicated kd weapons so they have imodbits_mace. Kind of an Apples & Oranges thing here. Sure it has kd, but the bec suffers a kd penalty due to having below 3 weight, while the others gain weight upon being heirloomed, and therefore get increased kd chance.

The Bec Secondary mode is 10 times more used than the Steel Pick secondary mode, based on the last NA1 stats I saw. Obviously it's because of knockdown, so that 14% knockdown on the Bec secondary is apparently pretty valuable to the player base. If the reasoning for not giving the 1h picks secondary mode knockdown was because they get weight when heirloomed, just change the aforementioned imodbits of picks to be the same as 1h swords. I don't think heirloomed pick users are particularly attached to that extra 0.2kg, especially if you traded it for knockdown in secondary mode.

[Tydeus]

Unlike with polearms, where the high pierce damage weapons are rather unique in comparison to the blunt kd weapons, the difference between the 1h kd and pierce weapons, is much less. Giving the weapons kd would make them a bit too good at the moment. Regardless, nothing will be done with kd until after we see the effects of the new formula.

[kinngrimm]

...until after we see the effects of the new formula.

what new formular?

[Phew]

what new formular?

I assume it's a rework of the knockdown chance calculation to reward higher quality hits (heatshots, held attacks, etc) with higher knockdown chance while making "poor quality" hits (near-glance, un-held torso hits, etc) be much less likely to knockdown.