Author Topic: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 16th February, 2000 CET  (Read 68193 times)

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Offline Butan

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #135 on: February 08, 2014, 05:30:16 pm »
+6
Btw if you keep reading this topic chadz, I would like to ask you:

Do you think it should be possible to loot strategus silver when you kill someone?


It was always too easy to keep riches safe, as long as you sold all your goods/items before you were destroyed, you could have a billion coins in your pockets, they would just steal your pitchfork.
Would give nice incentive for raid/attack and the only way to store gold securely would be to let it rest in fiefs, which is viewable by everyone.

Offline En_Dotter

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #136 on: February 08, 2014, 05:30:20 pm »
+2
If you have any *working* suggestion to stop people from creating large factions, feel free to tell me, because I've been looking for a solution for years now.

Quincy clan got a potential semi-solution. We shall post it soon (today or tomorrow) with every single detail. This should help things out but wont remove large factions.

P.S. Some of the clan leaders are somewhat familiar with this agenda and some of them even liked it very much. We shall see how it goes.
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Offline Segd

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #137 on: February 08, 2014, 05:34:35 pm »
+2
only reason you would have smaller roster is because clans abused the system. I hope that signing up for AI battles against your clan is bannable this time round
it was bannable already xD

More detailed scenario of Strat 5:
First weeks ppl farm basic equip & tickets. Hobo caravans appear.
Some clan(or several) tries to take a village & fails.
Orginized clans strike their first fiefs.
Orginized clans continue to take down fiefs since they have big advantage due to new property.
Lesser clans finally take their fiefs. Then big army shows up & rapes new owners of the fief.
Lesser clans create anti-something or join one of already established sides.
Everyone sits in their fiefs since attacking another big enemy is far less rewarding that in Strat 4(in which attacking  was pretty painfull already).
The end. Not happy one.

Oh, & forget about millions of XP which Strat 4 had.

Offline GRANDMOM

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #138 on: February 08, 2014, 05:36:35 pm »
+1
Btw if you keep reading this topic chadz, I would like to ask you:

Do you think it should be possible to loot strategus silver when you kill someone?


It was always too easy to keep riches safe, as long as you sold all your goods/items before you were destroyed, you could have a billion coins in your pockets, they would just steal your pitchfork.
Would give nice incentive for raid/attack and the only way to store gold securely would be to let it rest in fiefs, which is viewable by everyone.

This +1 - if we want more bandits, more raids, more fluid warfare and on-map tactical ambushes, raiding parties instead of just major armies and so on and so on - for chadz sake THIS!
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Offline KaMiKaZe_JoE

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #139 on: February 08, 2014, 07:46:51 pm »
+8
Oh god, please don't add a limit to the number of people in you clan. "Sorry, you can't be in FCC anymore Joe. We're full. Fuck off." Talk about gimping freedom, which, as has been pointed out, is kind of the Strat's strong point.

Admittedly, having a large number of players really does make you better off in Strat, especially with regards to troops, as individual players can farm soldiers just by playing some other game. Gold isn't as bad, though, with trade being the way it is. I figure if you changed the way that troops are generated, you could maybe buff smaller clans. Tie troops to fiefs (creates the problem of large clans w/ many fiefs though), or base it off of factions and use a nice, fair, equation scaled to give factions a proportionate number of troops.

Maybe leave troops alone and try to add more potential leverages for smaller/smarter Strat gamers. Being able to pick and choose a battlefield and predict the terrain and position accordingly let's say. Maybe commanders get to pick where they put their flags, and the defender picks first?
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Offline Jack1

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #140 on: February 08, 2014, 08:07:07 pm »
+3
How about making troop generation and gold making abilities more based off of activity outside strat battles? From what I've noticed smaller clans generally have more online playtime/person than larger clans with their troop grinders. The worst that could come out of it is more activity in the servers.
We're all nerds here, so it doesn't really matter.

Offline kinngrimm

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #141 on: February 08, 2014, 08:09:10 pm »
+2
If you have any *working* suggestion to stop people from creating large factions, feel free to tell me, because I've been looking for a solution for years now.

a) bind the amount of fiefs to the crime increase rate
Huge clans who will be able to take more fiefs earlier then others, will also have more problems then smaller/mediun sized clans who take less fiefs in the same time. If then the huge factions/clans create several clans as response to that, fine, that way at least tehy ahve already soem of teh problems smaller clans and factions have, as not all are in the same faction therefor cant transfer without problems shit to each other.

b) carrot diplomacy & stick regulating huge clans/alliances
include a diploamtic system and grant benefits, like shared line of sight depending on the level treaty and depending on the ranks of members within those factions of partipating partners of thsoe treaties.
Also depending on the level of Treaty(NAP, Trade, Defense, Full Alliance), you give several boni, but depending on how many peopel are involved in these allainces also Mali(?). Only those who have these treaties, can also apply on the roster for an alliance partner f.e. . If they dont engage into provided diplomacy options they cant fight for each other. But when they engage in this way and are able to fight for each otehr(signed allaince treaty), then you include a effiecency modifier which trickles down the economy depending on the member count of these allaince partners alone and also counted together. Peak effiecency around 70 members of a single none allied faction or combiened allied factions.

c) food for armies(not my favourite idear, but also could work)
cheap in production, limited in availabilty, fast in usage by armies, depending on army size faster depleting, if none then dying. That additional to the already existing gold upkeep.

d) delete current Strategus tickets on all acounts
If there are multiaccounters/sharers, by this whatever they tried to accumulate over teh past months is gone.

e) make a few weeks into the game another ban wave

f) ... there is more what can be done, if yo uset your mind to it.

Kinngrimm you dont propose one single idea in your post. Because there is no way, without killing freedom.
...
did i mention that i already made those suggestions in the past? Aktion Point System, Diplomatic System ...

Also i believe, when there would be a will to it, there also would be suitable solutions, maybe not perfect solutions.
But ways that those huge factions at least get a taste of the problems smaller and medium factions have. For now they do the same things over and over again, while small/medium factions become quite creative in cooperations.

The Strategus Tickets, was already introduced, so that ghost accounts, or multiaccounting of huge factions ^^, would be less of a problem. So there was something what made sense and it was done, which proves your statement wrong, that there could not be done anything, just plain untrue. That there may not ahve been a will or teh imagination, sure, no offense to anyone, several of the things in this and otehr games i would never ever have thought about, that doesnt but say there would not be a solution waiting somewhere

EDIT:
...People have free will, and that free will means anything can happen, which is good.
What you blame, is the history the players of this community created. They dont want something else, or the history would have been different....
The history of this game tells me, that clans had been founded, then players have joined, then they found out, teh more players the better, so even more players ahd been recruited. Then alliances tried to get rid of huge clans, sometimes they succeed, often not. Alliance memerbs (Fallen/GK/HRE) then joiend in one faction to be more efficent, isntead through the hierachic system to organize shit they pretty much neglected participation to a lot of people, and a lot of players in teh huge clasn or allainces will be discouraged as tehy cant participate activly in teh same way as others, due to hierachic systems and a limited battle rosters, having mroe players still gives more ressoruces and security to have a full roster ...

As the system does not define a peak, best effeicency point of player count, in a defianble way of a certain group of people(which is doable), therefor that gorup can grow unchecked and roflstomp.

This btw is also a problem in many societies, which may not be as bold as the chinese and go with a 1 child per family policiy at some point, but just deplet the fucking ressources of our planets. So grow a pair and accept, that personal freedom not in all cases can be satisfied, granted and given a free pass. I am sick of the argument, that free choice is always the highest of all values. I dont want to live in a fucking dictatorship, but i also dont want to be controlled by a few tycooons bribing polititians all the time. The relevance is, that regulations are needed or imbalance is what we accept and i for myself cant see any reason to play a game, where i would allways would get assraped only because one group of people is carebearing, grouping up together to no end, while i just want to play with a "view" friends a game which would not need me to put that much effort into it as this games does, because often for the very same reasons i tried to outline as being bad ... HUGE MEGA FUCKING FACTIONS ...

This discussion is taking a turn, upsetting me too much. Still, if you say it cant be done, to any problem you are reffering to, then you may just not have seen the way yet to solve it, this doesnt exclude that there would not still be a solution though waiting.

auf deutsch: geht nit gibts nit

EDIT2:
...
edit2: come on kinngrim, what, you're expecting that you and your 5 mates can take on greys or byzantium with 1/4 the members?!

in what world would that be fair?

if you're smaller than us, get more friends and come at us 2 or 3 clans at a time
In what world are you not a dick, when you have accumulated 2/3 of the playerbase going against a much smaller target.

Why would anyone want to play a game where he has not a fair chance to stay in the game or come back after being defeated? I can see why Fallen/HRE/GK pretty much are out of the game, if you loose too many times, you dont have any insentive anymore to play. So GG all who think they have won, while meanwhile the playerbase shrinks and in the end you can play with yourselves because noone a) has a chance b) doesnt want to be bullied c) doestn give a crap about a game where the outcome is clear at game start

While i see this depending on the new game, already as the last strategus, anyone if at all who would continue this cRPG/Strat, will have a tough time keeping players with those prequesits.

EDIT3:
For cRPG, i would set max limits, but not for strat, for strat i would regulate it by effiecency modifiers.
In cRPG, people are leaving when banner stacking has a noticable effect of teh outcome of the rounds.
Strat rounds take longer, but what makes you think it would be different there? People are either joining the winning side as they also at least once want to be on teh winning team, or they leave. If Clans are clearly supperior, they shouldnt have a problem with also being taxed a little more so to speak, in the end when they still win, they can then stroke their epen and say, even with tougher conditions .. we still won ^^.

Or people will learn, that smaller sized clans, are those where actually really more friendly relations are possible, then within huge mega factions, which are recruiting for economic reasons, or does anyone of the leaders of a clan with 70+ people want to tell me he is close friend to all of his players and speaks to them daily on a regular base over personal shit? Yeah right ...
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 08:45:56 pm by kinngrimm »
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Offline GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #142 on: February 08, 2014, 08:20:38 pm »
+2
Someone remind me why all these people want to nerf big factions.

Offline Keshian

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #143 on: February 08, 2014, 09:23:43 pm »
+3
Someone remind me why all these people want to nerf big factions.

To make greater participation overall.  When big factions dominate too much you lose a lot of playerbase of the smaller factions and independents.  However, when its more balanced you don't see the same loss of playerbase from large factions.  All I want is to have more active players - best way to make a good strategus round.

Honestly most of what can be done has been done already for next strat.  i do like kingrimm's idea of linking number of fiefs to crime rate - so the more fiefs you own the higher your crime rate increases in each when S&D is too high (maybe rate go up .2% for vilages, .5% castles, 1% cities).  With that it would be really nice to have factions that own exactly 1 fief to always have 0 crime rate.  Supports smaller factions.

I have to disagree with Tomas, Segd, and Kingrimm though about this round compared to last round favoring larger factions.  Not owning cities and castles makes it really tough for any faction, from the smallest to the largest, to get far ahead of anyone else economically.  Expensive armies will have tunics over mail, while any independent trader can buy 50 axes, 5 nomad bows, 45 arrows, 50 military scythes, 10 rouncies with 10 pitchforks, 50 basic swords with 50 round shields, 3 arbs and 45 bolts with no armor or the weakest peasant armor and be able to fuck up the richer faction with only 50-150 more troops while spending less on weapons then the other side spent just on their armor alone. 

When gold is more valuable than troops in previous strat iterations there is a LOT more fighting and activity.  Basically you fight a lot more because the troops are worth less and low end gear can do damage regardless of what the other side has because they won't have plate armor so all weapons are at least somewhat effective.  When everyone owned a city/castle and had full plate the fighting was far less and you needed more organization to get ana rmy properly equipped.  Lack of armor that will resist most cut weapons makes a huge difference.  Any Joe Schmoe or Kamikaze Joe can stop anywhere - buy gear with minimal effort and be a force to be reckoned with.


P.S.  Forgot to mention - can we fix the Dhirim map?  probably have a few months to do it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 09:29:15 pm by Keshian »
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Offline Blueberry Muffin

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #144 on: February 08, 2014, 09:54:53 pm »
+3
May the man with the least life be victorious. (What else will he have?)
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Offline Butan

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #145 on: February 08, 2014, 10:00:55 pm »
+4
May the man with the least life be victorious. (What else will he have?)

The round didnt even begin and merc already forfeit ?


I'm referencing the disturbing lack of faith in strategus that appeared when Apostates started to lose a lot of fiefs at the end of round 4  :P

Offline Osiris

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #146 on: February 08, 2014, 10:19:03 pm »
0
Think most mercs were bored and quit by then. same thing that meant no real wars at the end :P after waiting for months people just dont care
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Offline Dan lol

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #147 on: February 08, 2014, 10:26:57 pm »
+3
here's a thought to dissuage everyone in one giant faction, something like civil unrest. The idea being, if you are a giant empire, chances are the little people who you've conquered over the years get sick of the foreign invaders and rioting and insurrections start in your outlying regions. So based on how much of the map your faction controls/whatever better idea you have, your own population steals your own gear and starts battles with your own garrisons, in your smallest/shittiest/least guarded fiefs. These would essentially be AI initiated battles internal to the fief. Maybe there could be some sort of gold sink like public works or something to stave off these insurrections, paying upkeep to stop this from happening. Smaller clans could see this happening and could take it as a sign to make their move on a bigger faction and go for the kill on their weaker fiefs, and it may force the larger monster clans to break down and share more with allied clans or face the consequences. Probably a little too late to think about for this round of strategus but I think this sounds cool. Granted I've never owned a thing in strategus so I bet any nobleman landowner large clan scumbag would probably shit if this were the case.
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Offline Blueberry Muffin

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #148 on: February 08, 2014, 11:59:57 pm »
+1
I speak for myself Butan, not the Mercenaries clan. Secondly, I quit strategus months before we lost any fiefs so..
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Offline GRANDMOM

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Re: Rise and Shine: Strategus 2014, starting 15th February
« Reply #149 on: February 09, 2014, 12:12:42 am »
+2
I speak for myself Butan, not the Mercenaries clan. Secondly, I quit strategus months before we lost any fiefs so..

Didnt all mercs do that?
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