Author Topic: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam  (Read 13131 times)

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Offline Xant

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2015, 02:54:32 pm »
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The time to kill is a a lot quicker with the average rifles than in GO but probably comparable to the snipers, although arguably requiring less skill to aim.  The snipers in Insurgency are what ruin it for me, thankfully they are pretty limited in numbers but they make some of the maps simply unplayable, especially at night.
Yes, so much this. Some of the open terrain maps at night are just retarded because everyone is proning somewhere with a scoped rifle.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #91 on: February 25, 2015, 04:37:58 pm »
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Of course it is. What Xant is saying is that it takes less skill like that, and it really does.

I don't disagree, but at the same time I think that the developers are going for more realism (or at least that kind of realism) which doesn't necessarily mean more skill, and especially not the UT2004 kind of skill. I think that this direction also has some value.

Offline Xant

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #92 on: February 25, 2015, 07:59:49 pm »
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I don't disagree, but at the same time I think that the developers are going for more realism (or at least that kind of realism) which doesn't necessarily mean more skill, and especially not the UT2004 kind of skill. I think that this direction also has some value.
Dropping down dead instantly from a single shot every time is hardly realistic either.

I'm not saying make it UT2004, but I think just increasing TTK by 1 bullet for assault rifles would already do wonders.
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Offline Vibe

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #93 on: February 25, 2015, 10:02:47 pm »
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I don't disagree, but at the same time I think that the developers are going for more realism (or at least that kind of realism) which doesn't necessarily mean more skill, and especially not the UT2004 kind of skill. I think that this direction also has some value.

Yeah it does, I like to play high lethality bullets as well sometimes. I think it works better in more open spaces / Arma-like, but still, Insurgency is a decent game.

Offline Algarn

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #94 on: February 26, 2015, 12:48:16 am »
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I don't disagree, but at the same time I think that the developers are going for more realism (or at least that kind of realism) which doesn't necessarily mean more skill, and especially not the UT2004 kind of skill. I think that this direction also has some value.


It doesn't mean necessarily more skill, but it means more tactics, teamplay, reflexs, and everything you don't get in cRPG/other games nowadays, which is still great.

Dropping down dead instantly from a single shot every time is hardly realistic either.

Get shot by a AK in the chest/abdomen, and come back in one piece to tell us how you managed to keep running after that. You'd at least be unable to hold a gun in most cases, that's for sure.

Offline Xant

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #95 on: February 26, 2015, 07:49:58 pm »
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Get shot by a AK in the chest/abdomen, and come back in one piece to tell us how you managed to keep running after that. You'd at least be unable to hold a gun in most cases, that's for sure.
A SEAL was shot 27 times with an AK and survived. Also killed the guy who shot him. There's also this thing called body armor. AKs are not super weapons. And when was I talking specifically about AKs? And what special insight do you have about AKs? I have actually almost been shot by an AK-variant, so I think I probably have more experience about it.
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Offline AntiBlitz

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #96 on: February 26, 2015, 09:31:57 pm »
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A SEAL was shot 27 times with an AK and survived. Also killed the guy who shot him. There's also this thing called body armor. AKs are not super weapons. And when was I talking specifically about AKs? And what special insight do you have about AKs? I have actually almost been shot by an AK-variant, so I think I probably have more experience about it.

he was a fat american, as all americans are.

Let me guess, was it in a bar fight?

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« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 09:42:16 pm by AntiBlitz »

Offline Xant

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #97 on: February 26, 2015, 10:07:42 pm »
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Yeah, it seems OK if you have heavy armor and your opposition uses certain weapons, but still kind of random. I've started using heavy armor only and even survived some ambushes. Still doesn't help me, or the opposition, much if not using SMGs. 2 shots seems to do it mostly.

In comparison though, Arma 3 has a good system. Guns are lethal, but 1 hit kills are rare, and if you won't die from getting shot in the toe, etc.
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Offline Vibe

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #98 on: February 26, 2015, 10:43:20 pm »
+2
but 1 hit kills are rare, and if you won't die from getting shot in the toe, etc.

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Offline Kalam

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2015, 12:38:09 am »
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I'm going to poke in here and say most soldiers who get shot/hurt from shrapnel now survive. This is due to a number of complicated factors in medical and tactical training (as well as equipment) that have largely been introduced in the last 12 years. ARMA is definitely the closest thing we have, but no game comes close to approximating the number of factors involved in a wounded person. Most people who are wounded in combat do not shoot back. It is not rare to be able to shoot back, just less likely. That's what the rest of your unit is for. And admittedly, going prone with a scoped rifle is the best RL tactic in open terrain.

All that aside, Insurgency rewards (especially in Strike/Ambush) the use of tactics that aren't really required and don't pay off as much in other shooters.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 12:41:28 am by Kalam »

Offline Xant

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #100 on: February 27, 2015, 01:27:20 am »
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All that aside, Insurgency rewards (especially in Strike/Ambush) the use of tactics that aren't really required and don't pay off as much in other shooters.
People - not necessarily you - bringing up "tactics" and crap like that in response to making the TTK longer are just offering a false dichotomy, though. Guns being a bit less lethal would do nothing to lessen the importance of tactics. If anything, it'd make the suppression mechanic a bit more meaningful.
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Offline Kalam

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #101 on: February 27, 2015, 01:50:42 am »
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People - not necessarily you - bringing up "tactics" and crap like that in response to making the TTK longer are just offering a false dichotomy, though. Guns being a bit less lethal would do nothing to lessen the importance of tactics. If anything, it'd make the suppression mechanic a bit more meaningful.

You're right. I find suppression to be extremely useful now when I'm playing with someone I work well with, but yes. It would be more meaningful. I suppose I should state that when I say 'tactics' I mean urban tactics specifically. In this sense, Insurgency resembles nothing more than 'shoothouse' training with chalk sim rounds. Maybe even some paintball, but I've never played paintball of that sort.

Offline Deltah

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #102 on: February 27, 2015, 06:31:59 am »
+2
People - not necessarily you - bringing up "tactics" and crap like that in response to making the TTK longer are just offering a false dichotomy, though. Guns being a bit less lethal would do nothing to lessen the importance of tactics. If anything, it'd make the suppression mechanic a bit more meaningful.
Did you actually just write that? BRB, flushing my eyes with bleach.

Let's take the blemish that is CS:GO for example here. Time to get all hypothetical in this bitch. You've been playing a few rounds and two players of similar and decent skill are guarding similar lanes. The map's design dictates that the other players have a better firing position and will have the drop on you if they are paying attention. One of the players has an AWP, and the other a MAC10 or an M4 or really anything that isn't the AWP because they all perform about the same in comparison. Which person's fire are you more afraid of risking? If you say the longer TTK weapon then you are obviously just arguing for arguments sake and no longer retain any credibility as a human being. If you feel "suppressed" when someone sprays a mac10 at you in CS:GO you should probably give up on gaming and take up something less stressful.

Honestly, the higher the risk, the more likely one is to plan ahead and attempt to apply some sort of strategy to the situation.
I hate to use myself as an example here, but I play most games on autopilot and blatantly run into most situations. I rely purely on my nerves and my luck. All thought is dictated to my subconscious.
When I play a game like CS:GO or some other arcade-like garbage(blacklight,titanfall,battlefield) I do just fine. Hilariously the only time CS:GO actually takes on difficulty is when the opposition is equipped with faster TTK weapons than I have.(cough, AWP, cough)

However surprise surprise, when I use that play style in a less forgiving environment(ARMA, Insurgency, RO2, AA) I typically get destroyed.
Now if I change up the way I play the game and actively think about the positioning and movement of myself, my team, and my enemy, I drastically increase my survival rate.

To speak on the whole "skill ceiling" argument, CS:GO takes more nerves than it does anything else. I can attempt to out think the other guy all I want. However in many cases I can get the drop on someone and because they have a weapon with a faster TTK, they can actually tun around and end me before my rounds have run their course through the broken hit detection system in place. In Insurgency, the playing field is considerably more even, despite both teams having asymmetrical equipment.
Let's break it down some more.

In insurgency, my enemy can move faster and has better concealment options. The timing of aiming at fewer more similarly colored pixels that are moving faster(longer ranges, functional concealment, faster player movement) takes more skill than aiming at said persons chest and relying purely on your ability to shoot in timed bursts to satisfy the absolutely ridiculous cone of fire that trash games use to simulate firearm functionality. In insurgency the enemy has nearly the same capability to terminate me just as fast as I can do it to them because of the faster TTK's on all of the weapons. That in combination with solid visual and audio affects make suppression an actual thing. When I play CS I may as well be playing airsoft with how low quality the sounds and atmosphere are.

Anything that takes a skill to do in CS:GO is certainly more difficult to do in insurgency. Feel free to type out some long winded or angsty pseudo-intellectual response that I'm probably not going to actually read or intelligently respond to because you don't merit it and I have better things to do. Also please don't even speak about the damage that weapons do to people in real life as it's irrelevant to gaming and it's rather obvious you have no idea what you're on about.


TL;DR: Just because you rolled a low intelligence modifier when you were born IRL doesn't mean you get to use "I'm bad at it so thus it takes less skill" as a valid argument.
Bring me that ASS.

Offline Xant

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #103 on: February 27, 2015, 02:13:07 pm »
0
Did you actually just write that? BRB, flushing my eyes with bleach.
I'm sorry if it was too complicated for you to understand.

Quote
Let's take the blemish that is CS:GO for example here. Time to get all hypothetical in this bitch. You've been playing a few rounds and two players of similar and decent skill are guarding similar lanes. The map's design dictates that the other players have a better firing position and will have the drop on you if they are paying attention. One of the players has an AWP, and the other a MAC10 or an M4 or really anything that isn't the AWP because they all perform about the same in comparison. Which person's fire are you more afraid of risking? If you say the longer TTK weapon then you are obviously just arguing for arguments sake and no longer retain any credibility as a human being. If you feel "suppressed" when someone sprays a mac10 at you in CS:GO you should probably give up on gaming and take up something less stressful.
You should probably learn how to play CS before making CS examples.

Quote
Honestly, the higher the risk, the more likely one is to plan ahead and attempt to apply some sort of strategy to the situation.
I hate to use myself as an example here, but I play most games on autopilot and blatantly run into most situations. I rely purely on my nerves and my luck. All thought is dictated to my subconscious.
When I play a game like CS:GO or some other arcade-like garbage(blacklight,titanfall,battlefield) I do just fine. Hilariously the only time CS:GO actually takes on difficulty is when the opposition is equipped with faster TTK weapons than I have.(cough, AWP, cough)
Wow! You should definitely join a team then and go claim the million of dollars in tournament money, since CS never even "takes on difficulty" except when you're facing an AWP. Soon, surely, we will all witness "Deltah" in the majors, killing people left and right. I await with bated breath.

Quote
However surprise surprise, when I use that play style in a less forgiving environment(ARMA, Insurgency, RO2, AA) I typically get destroyed.
Then maybe you should learn to play. If you get destroyed in those games "with that playstyle", then you get destroyed in CS too. Hilariously enough, if you're actually a good player, the optimal way to play Insurgency is actually MUCH faster paced than the CS:GO optimal way, thanks to sprint and slide. In very deed, there are many places in Insurgency where you cannot look everywhere, so speed is your only and best defense. CS maps are designed differently. But what would you know about being a good player? Nothing, judging by the contradictory garbage you're spewing.


Quote
Now if I change up the way I play the game and actively think about the positioning and movement of myself, my team, and my enemy, I drastically increase my survival rate.
Amazing. What a surprise. And yet... Quake 3 is the game where you need to think about that the most, and it's as arcade as it gets.

Quote
To speak on the whole "skill ceiling" argument, CS:GO takes more nerves than it does anything else. I can attempt to out think the other guy all I want. However in many cases I can get the drop on someone and because they have a weapon with a faster TTK, they can actually tun around and end me before my rounds have run their course through the broken hit detection system in place.
LOL. See that? That's your credibility flying out the window. You just CONFESSED to being an awful player. What's your CS rank again? Silver 1? If you get the drop on someone in CS, you should be killing them unless you suck. But that is precisely what skill ceiling is about. It is possible to fail to kill someone if you suck -- I understand why this is something you don't want. Handicapped people want to handicap others too.

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In Insurgency, the playing field is considerably more even, despite both teams having asymmetrical equipment.
Yes, it's more even, because the skill ceiling is considerably lower. I already established this.

Quote
Let's break it down some more.
I can't wait.

Quote
In insurgency, my enemy can move faster and has better concealment options. The timing of aiming at fewer more similarly colored pixels that are moving faster(longer ranges, functional concealment, faster player movement) takes more skill than aiming at said persons chest and relying purely on your ability to shoot in timed bursts to satisfy the absolutely ridiculous cone of fire that trash games use to simulate firearm functionality.
Please, god, make it stop. Could you make it any more obvious you suck? Aim at said person's chest? Yeah, Silver 1, hello there, how're you doing? If you're having a hard time killing people in Insurgency you- well, nevermind, we've already established that you do suck. You don't even need to hit them, they get slowed and their aim gets hindered if you even hit NEAR them. But I understand that's a difficult task to you. To most of the playerbase, it isn't, though.
 
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When I play CS I may as well be playing airsoft with how low quality the sounds and atmosphere are.
And when I play football, I sometimes take off my shirt to cheer when I score a goal.... as relevant as you starting to talk about Counter-Strike's sounds and atmosphere.

Quote
Anything that takes a skill to do in CS:GO is certainly more difficult to do in insurgency.
You are clearly not qualified to talk when your experience is limited to Silver matchmaking in CS.

Quote
Feel free to type out some long winded or angsty pseudo-intellectual response that I'm probably not going to actually read or intelligently respond to because you don't merit it and I have better things to do.
Translation: you know I'm going to destroy you in my reply to you and you're making up an excuse (probably talked yourself into believing it too, easier for the ego) to not have to reply to my post. We all know you're going to read it.
 
Quote
Also please don't even speak about the damage that weapons do to people in real life as it's irrelevant to gaming and it's rather obvious you have no idea what you're on about.
Had you been blessed with the intelligence quotient of a broken couch, you'd have noticed that it wasn't me who started talking about damage weapons do in real life. But, alas.


Quote
TL;DR: Just because you rolled a low intelligence modifier when you were born IRL
That doesn't work as an insult, my friend, when we both know that's not true.
 
Quote
doesn't mean you get to use "I'm bad at it so thus it takes less skill" as a valid argument.
Just like in every FPS game I play, I've been accused of hacking in Insurgency more times I can count, and I always get scores like 30-2. So hard, so bad.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Insurgency - Stand alone on Steam
« Reply #104 on: February 27, 2015, 02:32:38 pm »
+2
Did you actually just write that? BRB, flushing my eyes with bleach.

Let's take the blemish that is CS:GO for example here. Time to get all hypothetical in this bitch. You've been playing a few rounds and two players of similar and decent skill are guarding similar lanes. The map's design dictates that the other players have a better firing position and will have the drop on you if they are paying attention. One of the players has an AWP, and the other a MAC10 or an M4 or really anything that isn't the AWP because they all perform about the same in comparison. Which person's fire are you more afraid of risking? If you say the longer TTK weapon then you are obviously just arguing for arguments sake and no longer retain any credibility as a human being. If you feel "suppressed" when someone sprays a mac10 at you in CS:GO you should probably give up on gaming and take up something less stressful.

Honestly, the higher the risk, the more likely one is to plan ahead and attempt to apply some sort of strategy to the situation.
I hate to use myself as an example here, but I play most games on autopilot and blatantly run into most situations. I rely purely on my nerves and my luck. All thought is dictated to my subconscious.
When I play a game like CS:GO or some other arcade-like garbage(blacklight,titanfall,battlefield) I do just fine. Hilariously the only time CS:GO actually takes on difficulty is when the opposition is equipped with faster TTK weapons than I have.(cough, AWP, cough)

However surprise surprise, when I use that play style in a less forgiving environment(ARMA, Insurgency, RO2, AA) I typically get destroyed.
Now if I change up the way I play the game and actively think about the positioning and movement of myself, my team, and my enemy, I drastically increase my survival rate.

To speak on the whole "skill ceiling" argument, CS:GO takes more nerves than it does anything else. I can attempt to out think the other guy all I want. However in many cases I can get the drop on someone and because they have a weapon with a faster TTK, they can actually tun around and end me before my rounds have run their course through the broken hit detection system in place. In Insurgency, the playing field is considerably more even, despite both teams having asymmetrical equipment.
Let's break it down some more.

In insurgency, my enemy can move faster and has better concealment options. The timing of aiming at fewer more similarly colored pixels that are moving faster(longer ranges, functional concealment, faster player movement) takes more skill than aiming at said persons chest and relying purely on your ability to shoot in timed bursts to satisfy the absolutely ridiculous cone of fire that trash games use to simulate firearm functionality. In insurgency the enemy has nearly the same capability to terminate me just as fast as I can do it to them because of the faster TTK's on all of the weapons. That in combination with solid visual and audio affects make suppression an actual thing. When I play CS I may as well be playing airsoft with how low quality the sounds and atmosphere are.

Anything that takes a skill to do in CS:GO is certainly more difficult to do in insurgency. Feel free to type out some long winded or angsty pseudo-intellectual response that I'm probably not going to actually read or intelligently respond to because you don't merit it and I have better things to do. Also please don't even speak about the damage that weapons do to people in real life as it's irrelevant to gaming and it's rather obvious you have no idea what you're on about.


TL;DR: Just because you rolled a low intelligence modifier when you were born IRL doesn't mean you get to use "I'm bad at it so thus it takes less skill" as a valid argument.

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