Item balance

[Pandor_Archer]

First of all - Trowings must be rebalanced. Stats that ive rebalanced have underline.
Old Throwing lance:                                                              
missile speed: 17
weapon length: 120
weight: 1.5
accuracy: 154
difficulty: 7
speed rating: 80
missile speed: 17
weapon length: 120
max ammo: 1
thrust damage: 60 pierce

New Throwing lance.
missile speed: 17
weapon length: 120
weight: 1.5
accuracy: 148
difficulty: 7
speed rating: 80
missile speed: 17
weapon length: 120
max ammo: 2
thrust damage: 50 pierce

Old jarids:
missile speed: 20
weapon length: 80
weight: 4
accuracy: 127
difficulty: 5
speed rating: 87
missile speed: 20
weapon length: 80
max ammo: 3
thrust damage: 40 pierce

New Jarids:
missile speed: 20
weapon length: 80
weight: 4
accuracy: 123
difficulty: 5
speed rating: 87
missile speed: 20
weapon length: 80
max ammo: 4
thrust damage: 36 pierce

Old Throwing spears:
missile speed: 18
weapon length: 80
weight: 4
accuracy: 119
difficulty: 6
speed rating: 85
missile speed: 18
weapon length: 80
max ammo: 4
thrust damage: 36 pierce

New throwing spears:
missile speed: 18
weapon length: 80
weight: 4
accuracy: 114
difficulty: 6
speed rating: 85
missile speed: 18
weapon length: 80
max ammo: 5
thrust damage: 34 pierce

Old Javelins:
missile speed: 19
weapon length: 76
weight: 4
accuracy: 113
difficulty: 3
speed rating: 89
missile speed: 19
weapon length: 76
max ammo: 3
thrust damage: 33 pierce

New Javelins:
missile speed: 19
weapon length: 76
weight: 4
accuracy: 110
difficulty: 3
speed rating: 89
missile speed: 19
weapon length: 76
max ammo: 4
thrust damage: 32 pierce

Old Heavy throwing axe :
missile speed: 15
weapon length: 53
weight: 2.7
accuracy: 126
difficulty: 4
speed rating: 95
missile speed: 15
weapon length: 53
max ammo: 2
thrust damage: 47 cut

New Heavy throwing axe:
missile speed: 15
weapon length: 53
weight: 2.7
accuracy: 123
difficulty: 4
speed rating: 95
missile speed: 15
weapon length: 53
max ammo: 3
thrust damage: 43 cut
Also its really need to nerf thrust damage for all weapons - 2h, 1h, pole.
About crossbows - i played it from 1 to 33lvl and i can say honestly - most op class atm. i suggest thouse changes:
Old    arbalest ranks.
                               Regular   Well Made    Exquisite    Masterwork
Speed                              60                   +1                   +1           +2
Thrust damage                85                   +2                   +3           +4
Missile  speed                  60                   +1                   +1           +2
Accuracy                           91                   +1                   +2           +3

New arb. ranks
                               Regular   Well Made    Exquisite    Masterwork
Speed                              60            +2                    +3           +6
Thrust damage                85            +0                   +0           +1
Missile  speed                  60            +1                   +2           +3
Accuracy                           91            +1                   +2           +4     

Old Steel bolts ranks:
                              Regular           Sharp         Well Made        Masterwork
Thrust damage:     8                     +1              +2                    +3
Ammo:                   12                   +1              +1                    +1     
 
New Steel bolts ranks:   
                              Regular           Sharp         Well Made        Masterwork
Thrust damage:     8                     +0             +0                    +0
Ammo:                   5                     +2             +4                    +7                     

And btw we should remove nudge from throwing weapon, its abuse when u finally come close to thrower he just threw u in 3 metters away with a fucking jarid, and then throw into u again.
Most of thouse changes are sugested to avoid one shots.

My opinion - one shots must be only in head

[Grumbs]

I don't know how I would change the xbows stats tbh. I wouldn't just change the Arbalast, and don't think i'd make it more accurate

Maybe increase reload speed and reduce damage and missile speed a bit across the board

[Tzar]

If this got in, ive would respec back to thrower instantly 

[sF_Guardian]

Don't like theese propositions.

[Tydeus]

I don't mean to rain on the parade or anything, and thanks for the interest, but are you aware that all of these changes would actually result in rather large buffs for ranged? The arbalest for example, would become the most accurate weapon in the entire mod. Also, I'm kind of baffled as to why you think throwing should lose accuracy. Last I checked, throwing was not only incredibly inaccurate(so much so, that it's more appropriate to congratulate the person on the receiving end of a HS for a nice catch), but it also has very slow projectile speeds.

Why make things more inaccurate, which essentially just increases the affects of RNG and reduces player skill? You're just increasing the frequency of random headshots which certainly don't make players enjoy the game more. When I get HSed, I want to know it's because the player was aiming for my head, not because his crosshairs were on my feet and "just got lucky".

[Pandor_Archer]

I don't mean to rain on the parade or anything, and thanks for the interest, but are you aware that all of these changes would actually result in rather large buffs for ranged? The arbalest for example, would become the most accurate weapon in the entire mod. Also, I'm kind of baffled as to why you think throwing should lose accuracy. Last I checked, throwing was not only incredibly inaccurate(so much so, that it's more appropriate to congratulate the person on the receiving end of a HS for a nice catch), but it also has very slow projectile speeds.

Why make things more inaccurate, which essentially just increases the affects of RNG and reduces player skill? You're just increasing the frequency of random headshots which certainly don't make players enjoy the game more. When I get HSed, I want to know it's because the player was aiming for my head, not because his crosshairs were on my feet and "just got lucky".

Accuracy not changing size of crosshair. arbalest is most accurate atm btw, lowering dmg will force crossbowmans aiming for head.
This thread not about nerf, its rebalancing

[Tydeus]

Might need someone to translate here. Weapon stats aren't straight forward, particularly for ranged weapons. Damage and accuracy both affect the size of the crosshair. Lowering weapon damage reduces the size of the crosshair, increasing accuracy also reduces the size of the crosshair. Both of which you proposed doing. Accuracy is changing the size of the crosshair. You're right though, this thread isn't about nerfing, it's actually buffs in disguise. 

[Pandor_Archer]

Might need someone to translate here. Weapon stats aren't straight forward, particularly for ranged weapons. Damage and accuracy both affect the size of the crosshair. Lowering weapon damage reduces the size of the crosshair, increasing accuracy also reduces the size of the crosshair. Both of which you proposed doing. Accuracy is changing the size of the crosshair. You're right though, this thread isn't about nerfing, it's actually buffs in disguise. 

Tested million times, long time ago when i was an archer, accuracy did not change the size of crosshair.

[Pandor_Archer]

Even if so, lowering damage will get rid of body oneshots, and force ppl to aim for head.

[Tydeus]

Tested million times, long time ago when i was an archer, accuracy did not change the size of crosshair.

Then I would suggest testing for the 1 million and first time.

(click to show/hide)

Seriously though, exactly how was your test set up?

I never said lowering damage was a bad idea by itself. I even gave Grumbs a +1 for his suggestion, as I agreed with it.

[Pandor_Archer]

Then I would suggest testing for the 1 million and first time.

(click to show/hide)

Seriously though, exactly how was your test set up?

Long time ago long bow had crazy accuracy, and i using it with only 120 wpf (crosshair was huge) but arrow goes strait at the middle of crosshair, no matter how huge it was) so if u aim well, arrow wont miss. and it was 40+ dmg xD
after it there was tons of patches that changes bows and i saw no difference in size of crosshair. only amount of wpf change it.

[Tydeus]

Here's a way to test. If you'll notice, both the Tatar Bow and the Nomad bows have the same accuracy but different damage values. Take a screenshot of your character with 2 PD using the Nomad bow at 1 wpf, then take a screenshot with 3PD and 1 wpf using a Tatar Bow. You should see that the Nomad bow has a tighter crosshair. Another test you can do to see the effects of accuracy, is try a Bow at 4PD with 1 wpf, screenshot your crosshair, then try a Yumi at 6PD with 1 wpf and take another screenshot. As you flip through the screenshots, you should see significant differences. Finally, all I can say about the correlation between reticule size and accuracy, is that if you don't think the reticule size affects accuracy, you're doing tests with too short of range.

[Pandor_Archer]

Here's a way to test. If you'll notice, both the Tatar Bow and the Nomad bows have the same accuracy but different damage values. Take a screenshot of your character with 2 PD using the Nomad bow at 1 wpf, then take a screenshot with 3PD and 1 wpf using a Tatar Bow. You should see that the Nomad bow has a tighter crosshair. Another test you can do to see the effects of accuracy, is try a Bow at 4PD with 1 wpf, screenshot your crosshair, then try a Yumi at 6PD with 1 wpf and take another screenshot. As you flip through the screenshots, you should see significant differences. Finally, all I can say about the correlation between reticule size and accuracy, is that if you don't think the reticule size affects accuracy, you're doing tests with too short of range.

PD is changing crosshair, so to test accuracy we need to test with same PD.

[Pandor_Archer]

The best way to test is 5 pd horn compair with nomad (same 101 accuracy) but different damage.

[Pandor_Archer]

Tested, i have compaired mw horn with regular, accuracy decreas size of crosshair.
Gona make some changes in my sugestion.