Nerf Ranged 2014

[Grumbs]

Maybe 3 years too late, but how about doing something about xbow builds? They are utter BS with how good they are in melee and ranged

[PsychoTwins]

Tydeus said he was already looking into xbows  im sure he will post if otherwise

[Grumbs]

Tydeus has to contend with the other devs who veto him. Devs that can't play without ranged being how it is

[Legs]

What's wrong with xbows?

They seem roughly equal to archers in melee and ranged play.

[//saxon]

What's wrong with xbows?

They seem roughly equal to archers in melee and ranged play.

DaveUKR.

[Tydeus]

The thing with crossbows, is that they suffer from an attempt to balance them around two conflicting objectives. They're supposed to be easily accessible and yet somehow still every bit as effective as ranged. To make matters worse(not having any skill point sink worth talking about),  high tier crossbows simply don't require any player skill to use due to missile speeds and damage. While not directly related to the above, they also have much higher average damage per hit than just about anything else in the entire mod.

This is just my stance on the items, they're clearly not shared by the Vain Onion-Eyed Pigeon Egg. 

[Zanze]

Couldn't the necessity of wpf be increased? Lower base accuracy and reload speed on the crossbows but increase the effectiveness of wpf on them. It would make weapon master -the- stat sink required for crossbows, especially if they want to melee as well. This should still keep the "anyone can pick up and shoot" mindset, but make the difference between dedicated crossbowman and hybrid a lot larger. Bolts should still hurt like hell when they do hit so it shouldn't scare off too many people. Then again, this is just a quick idea I came up with that may or may not have been said before. If so, sorry for not reading too deeply into the issue and previous discussions of it.

[Taser]

Couldn't the necessity of wpf be increased? Lower base accuracy and reload speed on the crossbows but increase the effectiveness of wpf on them. It would make weapon master -the- stat sink required for crossbows, especially if they want to melee as well. This should still keep the "anyone can pick up and shoot" mindset, but make the difference between dedicated crossbowman and hybrid a lot larger. Bolts should still hurt like hell when they do hit so it shouldn't scare off too many people. Then again, this is just a quick idea I came up with that may or may not have been said before. If so, sorry for not reading too deeply into the issue and previous discussions of it.

Something like this would work I would think. It probably needs refinement but I don't see why this wouldn't work.

Perhaps this isn't enough in your mind tydeus? Or you do want to do this but haven't been able to?

What's the ideas you have to make them somewhat more focused for the specialized players?

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Couldn't the necessity of wpf be increased? Lower base accuracy and reload speed on the crossbows but increase the effectiveness of wpf on them. It would make weapon master -the- stat sink required for crossbows, especially if they want to melee as well. This should still keep the "anyone can pick up and shoot" mindset, but make the difference between dedicated crossbowman and hybrid a lot larger. Bolts should still hurt like hell when they do hit so it shouldn't scare off too many people. Then again, this is just a quick idea I came up with that may or may not have been said before. If so, sorry for not reading too deeply into the issue and previous discussions of it.

Forcing xbowies to spec x/30+ builds makes it practically a certainty we'll have issues with a shitload of new SBish kiting xbowies, I'd be cool with it if the weight was further increased to compensate, but I doubt that's what people really want. If possible I'd love for crossbowmen to rotate their field of view/character much slower while having their crossbow out, this'd make xbow aiming the least bit skillbased, make using a crossbow unique in other ways than being easy and not requiring skill investment, and make crossbow facehug shooting less convenient (shield pierces pretty much certainly at facehug range, an arb can easily onehit or take the majority of someones hp at facehug range, unlimited amount of time having the xbow in shooting position unlike archers makes keeping your slight distance until they fire or their reticule grows huge not an option, you can't fucking miss at facehug range, etc).

[Jarold]

I think crossbows should have the accuracy penalty of being held to long like a bow does. It seems like it might get tiring holding something like a crossbow up for awhile especially after pulling the string back. I dunno, screw realism, first bring in game balance.

I think instead of a skill requirement maybe give them a higher strength requirement. Arbalest has a 21 str requirement and Heavy Crossbow gets something like a 19 str requirement. Making the crossbowmen who want to be hard hitters less accurate, have little kiting capabilities, but are also hard hitting in melee with very low melee wpf.

I think limiting a crossbowmens ability to turn while reloading is a good idea. They have way to much safety while reloading, they should be weakest while reloading, not most aware. But of course if this is added you must also remove the "view outfit" feature.

I also think the "View Outfit" feature in Warband should be taken out for everyone. I have to admit I love using it, I use it constantly to watch my back. But it's a really lame feature since you never know if that guy you're behind actually sees you or is he oblivious to my presence?

[Leshma]

As people said, raise the wpf bar for xbows. Also bag of bolts should weight 10-15 kg, because 13 steel bolts is enough for most xbowers (archers need more projectiles because they lack accuracy compared to xbows).

Also, nerf the shit out of those tiny ass bows, while you're at it.

Edit: Almost forgot, raise STR req for xbows. Arba/Hxbow 18 STR huehue

[Torben]

isnt it a good thing to have working hybrids?  you can have a weapon and
a shield
a ranged weapon
a horse
whatever.  diversity ftw.

if all,  id say give archers better melee capabilities.  their ranged capability isnt that much more efficient then xbows to have them need higher req then the latter.

engrish ftw sry

[Leshma]

So you want to buff ranged? That could work, but it would be a buff and melee would cry even more.

Honestly, I would buff archers and their melee ability and also xbows a bit. But I would also remove Shield and Riding skill and implement Riding and Shield wpf (I know it's abbreviation for weapon proficiency but who cares). Also would give a ton of wpf points to everyone but change the wpf curve so you can't get more than 175-185 in one branch. Also make horses way cheaper. Makes perfect sense because everyone can ride a go-cart, it's not like Warband has decent riding mechanics.

[Kafein]

Remove shield piercing entirely. If there is one single most important thing to do about crossbows, it's that.

After that, reduce the number of bolts per quiver and/or increase the slot count of heavy crossbows and arbalests to 3. Xbow/1h/shield builds take much too long to die once cornered if they turtle up. If you need something else, decrease missile speed.

[Molly]

The thing with crossbows, is that they suffer from an attempt to balance them around two conflicting objectives. They're supposed to be easily accessible and yet somehow still every bit as effective as ranged. To make matters worse(not having any skill point sink worth talking about), crossbows simply don't require any player skill to use due to missile speeds. 42 to 60 missile speed vs 38 to 48. And while not directly related to the above, they also have much higher average damage per hit than just about anything else in the entire mod.

This is just my stance on the items, they're clearly not shared by the Vain Onion-Eyed Pigeon Egg. 

I always knew Fasaderp is every bit of useless we always claimed him to be. 

btw... Best Thread 2014.