Seafaring and Seabattles discussion

[Ronin]

It has been asked what we want for strategus 5, and seabattles were among the wanted features. Yet, no one actually made an indepth explenation of how it should be done. Now, no one really knows if there is going to be seabattles or not, in the next strategus round but I believe we can discuss on it. Because the feature needs to be carefully planned before getting added and for that reason only, the devs might simply skip it. Because it is impossible to add it just like that:

1- The current map, map of calradia, simply introduces no use for sea travel. If sea battle and seafaring is to be introduced, not really much people would use it in my opinion. Because it is a bit pointless.
2- How should seabattles be done? Should it be a scene consisting of 2 ships in the middle of a sea (already boarded), should it be done like in vikingr (ships going on a straight pattern), or like in PWmod (2 people controlling the ship). Given the strat fights system (flags), only the first system is possible I think. Since it might not be possible for flags to travel with the ship, but who knows.
3- Troop to ship ratio. This part is also related to the second issue. For example, it would be a bit weird to make a 2000 vs 2000 fight in two small ships. Ah there is also the part where it is practically impossible to load 2000 men to a ship, logicwise.


My suggestions would be:
1-Expanding the map of Calradia a bit, adding different islands, and maybe reshaping the main continent to have it some kind of an inner sea and some lakes, rivers etc. Also making trades that has to consist sea travel, more rewarding would have been a good idea. Of course, a map of Europe would be well fitting too.
3-Also, making it so that every party that is on sea to have [ships + troops], where a single ship can carry no more than 100 men. So every party would have been a fleet.
2-About the battles, the system can take the number of ships in both fleets and open a relevant scene for the battle:

-2 ships in total: a scene with 2 ships boarding each other in the middle of a sea (Like this, this was a played map by the way)
-3 ships in total:  a scene with 3 ships boarding each other in the middle of a sea
-4 ships in total:  a scene with 4 ships boarding each other in the middle of a sea
-5-6 ships in total:  a scene with 5 ships boarding each other in the middle of a sea
-6-9 ships in total:  a scene with 6 ships boarding each other in the middle of a sea
-9-20 ships in total:  a scene with 9 ships boarding each other in the middle of a sea
-20+ ships in total:  a scene with 20 ships boarding each other in the middle of a sea

So for example, a fleet of 12 ships versus 10 ships; the battle takes place in the "20 ships scene". The scene is completely static by the way.

Numbers are arbitrary of course.


For battles, I'd actually prefer the system that is in PWmode (1-2 guys controlling the ship), but I fear it might be too much work for organizing flags. So I left that idea out. But indeed a battle with 5 moving ships versus 5 moving ships would be, beyond amazing.

So lets discuss. There might be other problems too, but those 3 were the only ones I could think of.

[ARN_]

I would like the NA map to be on the other side of the EU map, with the sea between and some islands that both NA and EU could fight for. A war of an island between a EU and NA faction would bring something new to the kinda boring strat we have had.

Edit: Having EU and NA separated by a sea would also favour pirate factions who could raid the rich trade fleets travelling between the two continents

[Osiris]

boats has been suggested many times but you wont get them

[Ronin]

boats has been suggested many times but you wont get them

To be realistic, we probably won't. Yet no one can know that. But if we, as a community, won't find a good solution to the problems of seafaring; we definitely won't. So why not try it? I believe if what we suggest is doable and makes sense, we might get that into the game in the next strat.

@Arn
I loved that idea!

[GRANDMOM]

boats has been suggested many times but you wont get them

I think its not just a great idea that has been discussed before, this way, like Ronin says, a proper discussion might actually lead to something. Prolly not but it just might. Osiris, the attitude from often the same people everytime something gets suggested or discussed is boring and somewhat killing alot of discussions.

Some time the negative( oh sorry - meant realistic) guys of this forum is right, but sometimes they are not. I remember the wooden wall issue back when we sieged Alburq castle - same thing there, same guys saying stf it will never be, wont happen, in your dreams......yet it did.

So if you and other "realism know it all guys" want to add something to the debate - try being constructive.

Arn your idea was a great addition - if this happens - Kalmar is going pirate on everyones ass 

[Tomas_Miles_again]

I would like the NA map to be on the other side of the EU map, with the sea between and some islands that both NA and EU could fight for. A war of an island between a EU and NA faction would bring something new to the kinda boring strat we have had.

Edit: Having EU and NA separated by a sea would also favour pirate factions who could raid the rich trade fleets travelling between the two continents

Or how about a horizontal wraparound map?

[Teeth]

Now, no one really knows if there is going to be seabattles or not, in the next strategus round

Yes, I do. There will not be any seabattles in the next strategus round.

Apart from this being beyond the arse end of the priority list for the devs, how much fun would these seabattles be? Once you're spawned on two ships adjacent to eachother, it just becomes a melee clusterfuck with no role for ranged or cav, a huge grindfest with no room to maneuver. Get your Great Mauls out boys.

[DaveUKR]

I'll tell you more, next Strategus will either start like at least after 8-10 months or more likely will start in a couple of months and will be the same boring thing.

[Malgalad]

  And can we have a battle of landing beach?

[Dalhi]

I honestly don't want to see chadz wasting his precious time on strategus.

[Lt_Anders]

I honestly don't want to see chadz wasting his precious time on strategus.

If that's the case, just outsource it. I mean the guy who did Third Age total war, said go ahead and MOD it/fix it how you like, just make sure you follow like 2 guidelines(IE you say he made the mod and something else).

I think the biggest problem is that we have so many people who have ideas(and people who could implement them) but it gets lost since only 2 ish, people can make or do any updates to the game beyond just models.

Like, sea battles, it could work, but you need a person or group, who can come up with an idea for it. They have movable boats in both PW and NW, so it's doable to make boats. and do naval tactics(which would beat ANY land battle tactics due to the Deathmatch nature of a land battle and a sea battles non deathmatch nature.)

[Dionysus]

A fun idea for perhaps the worst period in history for naval warfare.