Author Topic: im fat im fat oh god im fat  (Read 11286 times)

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Offline Rumblood

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #105 on: December 29, 2013, 06:33:50 am »
+4
You never give up, even when given reams of data proving you wrong. Just go your eat 1 meal and get what is coming to you, because I'm done proving you wrong.
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Offline Xant

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #106 on: December 29, 2013, 06:42:31 am »
-1
You know, it's funny, because that study is pro-1 meal and you're using it to argue against it. Those blood glucose levels are from a morning OGTT.

In the present study morning glucose tolerance was impaired when subjects were consuming 1 meal/day compared to 3 meals/day. Fasting (morning) plasma glucose levels were significantly elevated in subjects when they were consuming 1 meal/d compared to 3 meals/d. The latter difference in fasting glucose levels could be explained, in part, by continuing absorption of the greater amount of food consumed in the evening in the subjects on the 1 meal/d diet. Other studies have suggested an adverse effect of meal-skipping diets on insulin sensitivity [20–22]; however, these studies were either epidemiological (with inherent confounds) or involved very short-term (days) changes in diet. Whether the effect of the 1 meal/d diet on glucose tolerance would persist, exacerbate or resolve over time beyond the 2 month experimental diet period of our study is an important question relevant to long-term effects of the diet. However, we did find that the effect of the 1 meal/d diet on glucose tolerance was rapidly reversed upon return to the 3 meal/d diet, indicating that the diet had no long-lasting effect on glucose metabolism.

The OGTTs were performed in the morning. Therefore, when on the 1 meal/d diet the subjects had consumed a much greater amount of food in proximity to the OGTT compared to subjects on 3 meals/d, which could have influenced morning insulin sensitivity. Moreover, circadian variations in glucose tolerance have been documented with tolerance being best in the morning [38]. When not accustomed to a morning meal, and then subjected to a morning OGTT, the subjects eating 1 meal/d may therefore exhibit poorer glucose tolerance compared to those adapted to eating breakfast.

Our findings show that consumption of one unusually large meal per day worsens morning glucose tolerance compared to an isocaloric diet spread across three meals. However, when on 1 meal/d the subjects would have eaten less than those on 3 meals/day if we had not asked them to consume the same amount of food that they normally eat on a 3 meal/d schedule. When rodents are subjected to an alternate day fasting regimen, their overall calorie intake is decreased by 10–30% and they maintain a lower body weight than animals on an ad libitum control diet, and exhibit increased insulin sensitivity and decreased blood pressure [11, 25].Similarly, when maintained on an alternate day calorie restriction diet over a 2 month period, human subjects lost weight and exhibited improved cardiovascular disease and diabetes risk profiles. In the latter study the subjects ate only 400–500 calories on CR days, which resulted in a reduction in plasma leptin levels and an elevation of β-hydroxybutyrate levels only on the CR days, but sustained decreases in plasma insulin levels suggesting improved insulin sensitivity.

Collectively, the available data therefore suggest that meal skipping or intermittent CR diets can result in health benefits including improved glucose regulation, but only if there is an overall reduction in energy intake.

Show me more scientific research that argues against the point you're trying to make, please.
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #107 on: December 29, 2013, 07:10:07 am »
+2
It doesn't matter if the meal is eaten in the morning, it is still 1 meal per day and the study showed an elevated glucose level in those subjects, period. They, as all good scientists do, attempted to provide some alternate theories as to why that may be, but the results are still the same.
And your rats are not an example at all. Of course a being used to consuming their calories in 3 smaller portions will consume fewer calories in one meal when they switch from 3 meals to 1. The amount you can consume is limited by the physical size of your stomach and it takes time for it to stretch to be able to eat 3 times the amount of food in one sitting. That's why lapband procedures work. That's not the situation in your case where you are used to eating it all in one go and have already stretched your stomach to accomodate it.
When you consume more of your calories in one sitting, you create a larger spike in blood sugar at one time and have to produce more insulin at one time to deal with it. Having that large spike is bad for you, however you may argue. It is basic math, but since you love to argue, again, from the Mayo clinic:
Quote
The more you eat, the higher your blood sugar will rise.
Quote
Your blood sugar level is highest an hour or two after you eat, and then begins to fall. You can help lessen the amount of change in your blood sugar levels if you eat at the same time every day, eat several small meals a day or eat healthy snacks at regular times between meals.

And you haven't even addressed the AACE findings and guidelines, nor the study done on neuropathy in patients with impaired glucose intolerance, which regardless of what excuses you wish to cling to, was demonstrated in the study on the 1 meal a day group.

Damn you hate to be wrong.
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Offline Xant

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #108 on: December 29, 2013, 05:23:59 pm »
-1
Hahahah, you are beautifully clueless. Your first sentence makes no sense. You clearly don't know what an OGTT is and why it matters it was a morning OGTT (even though I copied the text that more or less explains it..)

Of course I haven't addressed the AACE findings or the neuropathy, because they are irrelevant. That's like me saying "eating more than once a day gives you cancer. Here's a link to how bad cancer is. Why aren't you addressing how bad cancer is???"

Again, since reading comprehension appears difficult, I'll copy-paste the conclusion the scientists arrived at (again):

Collectively, the available data therefore suggest that meal skipping or intermittent CR diets can result in health benefits including improved glucose regulation, but only if there is an overall reduction in energy intake.
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #109 on: December 29, 2013, 05:58:27 pm »
+2
So you claim the data generated is false and can be ignored since they don't support your statement, but you can choose an irrelevant conclusion that doesn't actually address glucose levels from the same study and champion it as proving your point, which by the way was completely contradicted by the Mayo clinic? Classic.

All you are demonstrating is that you can ignore information consistently and continue arguing long past the time that any sane person is willing to continue bothering with you. Those who aren't a brick have gotten the information to ignore your unhealthy advice, mission accomplished.

Ad infinitum. Belongs in your signature.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 06:02:08 pm by Rumblood »
"I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday" – Abraham Lincoln

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Offline Xant

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #110 on: December 29, 2013, 06:08:03 pm »
-1
The data generated is not false, you are simply misinterpreting it.

It's interesting how you choose to champion that study as proving your point, yet the scientists - you know, the people in white lab coats whose job it is to do this, and the people who conducted the study - have reached completely different conclusions based on the data. Hmmmmm...

Thanks for playing, though, but check and mate. 1 meal a day is backed up by logic, scientists, research, evolution and tons of anecdotal evidence.
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Offline H4rdn3ssKill3r

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #111 on: December 31, 2013, 02:25:53 am »
0
evolution
i'm dying
oh god xant please, next time, don't say shit you don't know about.

Quote
A 2012 study by Japanese researchers at Waseda University in Tokyo showed that when mice fed one high-fat meal per day were compared with mice fed the same amount of high-fat food split up into two daily meals, the mice who ate once a day gained more weight and had higher levels of insulin in their blood... The scientists suggest that these findings might apply to humans as well.

evolution

Quote
A study published in the April 2007 edition of the "American Journal of Clinical Nutrition" examined the effect of one meal a day vs. three. The researchers found that the healthy participants who ate a single meal a day did lose fat mass, but they were hungry. Moreover, they had increased blood pressure and total cholesterol and a decreased cortisol concentration. Cortisol, a steroid hormone, causes your body to send more glucose into your bloodstream when you are under stress.

evolution

Yeah no.
If you take the time humans have had agriculture and you put it up to the time of our whole evolution line you would see it would be very small.
Now riddle me this, back then, we would be hunting and foraging most our days, continually eating food as we went our nomadic ways. Nowhere does evolution support this shitty "one meal a day" crap, our body is made for eating food continually, getting energy at a steady rate.
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Offline Xant

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #112 on: December 31, 2013, 03:01:37 am »
-1
So, the hunter gatherer tribes had hunting groups that went and killed animals; they ate them on the spot immediately, without cooking them, instead of bringing them back to the others. And they caught big game all the time. Nonstop. Many times a day. Ok. Sounds legit bro.
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Offline Tzar

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #113 on: December 31, 2013, 03:19:28 am »
+3
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #114 on: December 31, 2013, 03:42:58 am »
0
Hunter gatherer humans had a life expectancy below 30?

Offline Xant

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #115 on: December 31, 2013, 03:55:12 am »
-1
Hunter gatherer humans had a life expectancy below 30?
Not that it's relevant, but you're wrong:

https://condensedscience.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/life-expectancy-in-hunter-gatherers-and-other-groups/

http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/GurvenKaplan2007pdr.pdf

Now that we've been over that, even if the life expectancy of hunter-gatherers was below 30 (which, to reiterate, it wasn't), it'd be irrelevant. Humans have been hunter-gatherers for most of the two million years we've existed, our bodies, therefore, have adapted for their lifestyle.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 04:01:26 am by Xant »
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #116 on: December 31, 2013, 06:04:04 am »
-1
Not that it's relevant, but you're wrong:

https://condensedscience.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/life-expectancy-in-hunter-gatherers-and-other-groups/

http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/GurvenKaplan2007pdr.pdf

Now that we've been over that, even if the life expectancy of hunter-gatherers was below 30 (which, to reiterate, it wasn't), it'd be irrelevant. Humans have been hunter-gatherers for most of the two million years we've existed, our bodies, therefore, have adapted for their lifestyle.

Historical numbers are, as you like to say, anecdotal and the sample median in the modern populations in the graphs from modern hunter-gatherers (who often have access to modern medicines anyhow) is right around 30 years old. So 50% of the population is dead by 30. 38% are dead by 15. However that is all besides the point. Again, in your psychosis and pathological need to be right, you completely ignore the "gatherer" portion of hunter gatherer in an weak attempt to mock Hardness. Roots, herbs, berries, nuts, insects, etc were all gathered and meals were had from them as well, not from "big game kills many times a day". And while they did not have refrigeration, they had other methods for preserving food for the lean times to supplement what they could gather. Not to mention, when a big game kill was made, that kill would last them for multiple meals. They certainly would not have needed "big kills many times a day". 1 big game kill a week or even less along with smaller animals, plus everything mentioned above was more than enough to provide 2-3 meals per day with snacking on the go as they passed through rich areas on the move.
You really should seek professional help for that problem of yours, except you would spend all of your time telling them how to be a counselor as you already know better than they do.
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #117 on: December 31, 2013, 01:45:16 pm »
+2
I think the bottom line should be the practicality of it all. Asking a fatty to stop being fat by eating one meal a day is just comical to me. The reasons people get fat is because they eat too much and have no structure to their diets or routines, getting them to eat 1 meal under normal circumstances just won't work long term and you have to think long term for weight loss. It has to be sustainable and something people can adopt into their daily routine

The temptation to snack will be too much, and when they do eat they will be so hungry they make huge unhealthy meals. Added to that they probably won't feel like exercising even more
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Offline Xant

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #118 on: December 31, 2013, 02:31:24 pm »
0
Yet people have done it and lost weight with 1 meal a day. Everything you say is just an opinion, same could go for any number of meals per day.

I mean, have you tried it? I'd guess not. I've never felt more like working out than when eating 1 meal a day. Zero temptation to snack. Ridiculously easy to lose weight.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 03:28:45 pm by Xant »
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: im fat im fat oh god im fat
« Reply #119 on: December 31, 2013, 04:55:57 pm »
0
Everything you say is just an opinion.

Sure, everything is just an opinion, when you ignore the actual data...
"I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday" – Abraham Lincoln

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