Do no allow ranged Skip the Fun

[Kafein]

it does, everytime a agi rondel shield my old friend or agi whoring polearmer or notoriously op 2h my old friend shows up. Or an xbow shoots me in the face. Or another archer. Or stupid onehitting throwing lances...

All good reasons to die, no good reason to whine, and no reason to rage quit.

Mindset: "good sports" "get better" "enjoy your own next kill" "laugh at the funny ragdoll your corpse just made"
not: "my autoblocking 'skillz' did not work against that ranged my old friend - RAAAAAAGE!!!!!"


P.S.: oh, one thing makes me GTX: horses, if there are too many of them. But that is related to my high ping, can't handle the fast fuckers. And even there I got better and enjoy every swing with a light spiked club while jumping at them, and every horse that ends up dead at my feet because of a well timed shot in the head.

Well, the picture is not all black or all white, everything is on a spectrum of "undeservedness". Bullshit happens in melee too.

But rarely in melee does dying completely depend on RNG. A classic example is getting shot by defenders in siege when you just spawned outside the castle. You can run in a straight line, zigzag like a madman or stand still, it doesn't really matter. Sometimes I've stood still and heard 5 arrows flying past me, sometimes I dodged as best as I could and got shot anyway. Sometimes I used my shield to protect me and got shot anyway. Any sane person with a little bit of experience with game design would tell you this is horrible, as the player gets punished even when playing perfectly.
 

Does this sort of thing happen in melee ? The short answer is : no. The long answer is : almost never. If you block correctly, you won't die. This is exactly the same whether you play as a level one peasant or a level 36 pure 2h.

The good sports mindset is irrelevant here, because the game offers no incentive to "play better", as you will get shot anyway even if you play perfectly. In most shooter games, getting shot and dying is considered to be a normal thing even for the best player in the world, because those games are inherently much more unfair than Warband melee, or most competitive fighting games like street fighter for that matter. When you are accustomed to the very strong link between skill and survival that Warband melee offers, being suddenly confronted with ranged where this principle does not apply, is brutal. I'd like ranged defense to be as effective as melee defense, it simply isn't.

[En_Dotter]

I disagree. Only because of one fact. STF is not only for new players to try things out. What if i want to change my build and before i want to do that i want to test it? What if i dont wanna be an archer anymore but a bundle of sticks xbow or thrower?

[CrazyCracka420]

Note to self: write self help book for melee players to help them change fucked up mindset...

Seriously...I don't get it either.  I just don't even at this point.  Ranged can hit you from a distance.  Infantry have to be in your face to hit you.

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[Rumblood]

Sorry but this is a terrible suggestion.
Never ever ever never ever ever should class balance in a game be regulated opressively, like "you're not allowed to play this class because there are already too much of such".
Instead, it should be balanced internally, so that less people want to play this class.
And yes, if there are too much players of certain class that means this class is OP in some way, simple as that. So nerf, don't restrict.

This is a nice argument, but totally inaccurate. This has nothing to do with class balance. You can play any class you want. You just can't insta-level a ranged player.

This is a horrible suggestion that tries to hide the problem.

Btw Hirlok, would you not GTX if the game decided to kill you at random for no good reason ?

All of your suggestions are even worse. You chose nerf them until useless didnt you?

[Kafein]

This is a nice argument, but totally inaccurate. This has nothing to do with class balance. You can play any class you want. You just can't insta-level a ranged player.

All of your suggestions are even worse. You chose nerf them until useless didnt you?

I see two problems with this suggestion. First, not allowing ranged STF is effectively similar to a higher entry barrier to ranged for melee players, because from a melee background you don't necessarily know what ranged builds work, and need more testing than ranged players to know what fits you best. Second, if there was no issue with ranged this would not be necessary, just like class teambalancing or quotas or all ideas that revolve around limiting team variety.

It is an inadequate solution, but a lesser evil than just letting it go, sure. It is also a greater evil than managing to reduce the amount of archer through ingame means. I do not want to nerf any class until useless. What I do want is the existence of an efficient way to deal with that class, other than just joining it.

Seriously...I don't get it either.  I just don't even at this point.  Ranged can hit you from a distance.  Infantry have to be in your face to hit you.

In what way is that an argument for anything ? Being able to hit from a distance doesn't mean you have to be nigh invulnerable to everything except other ranged.

[CrazyCracka420]

In what way is that an argument for anything ? Being able to hit from a distance doesn't mean you have to be nigh invulnerable to everything except other ranged.

They're not invulnerable to my lance.  They're not invulnerable to my sword.  They can't even hit me through my shield, so their ability to hit from a distance is completely negligible. 

[Kafein]

They're not invulnerable to my lance.  They're not invulnerable to my sword.  They can't even hit me through my shield, so their ability to hit from a distance is completely negligible.

They are effectively invulnerable to melee weapons unless at melee range, in which case they are just as vulnerable to melee weapons as everybody else, which means, not that much (i.e. it takes a long time to kill a good player in melee). Someone that tries to attack you with a melee weapon outside of melee range is not negligible but nonexistent.

You as a shielder are pseudo-invulnerable to them as your shield cannot withstand that many projectiles anyway and cannot protect you from crossfire either. Additionnally, you have to pay that invunerability at more than a 50% movement speed malus, plus the fact that while invulnerable that still doesn't mean you can attack them.

[CrazyCracka420]

So the only way ranged is balanced is if they can't hit you from a distance?  I don't get what your point is otherwise.

Different classes and equipment serve different purposes.  Melee and ranged are always going to have different roles on the battlefield.

[Inglorious]

We are delving to deep now, into why people who are melee hate ranged

This thread was made so we can keep people from trolling with a ranged skip the fun build.

i.e.:

When five people join server on STF's riding plated chargers and have Godly accuracy with a bow.

It's just a scum bag move to me. Going some ridiculously broken class with the soul purpose to make people mad. I sat in on TS when four people from Remnant were using their STF's as HA's to just that... the amount of troll that was heard from these guys made me throw up.

And yeah, it's their right to do it or w/e else defense you care to make, but when people do it to be a dick and have fun ruining server population [which is majority of the time], it crosses the line IMO

[CrazyCracka420]

Better balance system would fix the problem of people going "troll" builds and banner stacking the server.

When there's a majority of any one class (lancer, horse xbow, horse archer, thrower) all on one team, especially due to banner balance, it creates a pretty big imbalance in game, and makes it hard for one team to win. 

[Jack1]

Maybe it's have upkeep on STFs higher? Possibly add X more upkeep or multiplying upkeep by X?

This would limit troll builds much better across the board while taking gold out of the system.

[Kafein]

So the only way ranged is balanced is if they can't hit you from a distance?  I don't get what your point is otherwise.

Different classes and equipment serve different purposes.  Melee and ranged are always going to have different roles on the battlefield.

Yes, you really don't get my point. My point is that something in the game should roughly have the same kind of relation to ranged as the relation ranged has to shieldless melee. This would mean that when there is too much ranged around, you can switch to that class with an alt or whatever, and deal with the ranged overpopulation. This works no matter how unbalanced the teams are. A team fully comprised of archers would be slaughtered by a balanced team, because the balanced team would be able to take advantage of that class, just like a balanced team can easily take advantage of a melee overpopulation in the other team by camping vantage points and delaying the fight.

[Silfarion]

If we remove STF then at least give us a chance to move everything to other characters

I have all my expensive crap on my STF character

[XyNox]

My point is that something in the game should roughly have the same kind of relation to ranged as the relation ranged has to shieldless melee.

I have seen you posting this a lot of times but I still dont know what this "something" is supposed to be.

Xbow counters archers fine but then you say the counter shouldnt be ranged as well. Shielders you also dont count as a viable counter since they have to get into melee range first. So what you want is a class that kills ranged without the need to get into melee range, from a distance but also that imaginary counter is not allowed to be ranged as well, because "more ranged to fight ranged not acceptable". I think the only way to create your class is implementing magic into the game, otherwise I am afraid it is impossible.

[Macropus]

I think the only way to create your class is implementing magic into the game

Or making heavy cavalry have more protection from ranged.