A general discussion on the issue of ranged

[Wolfsblood]

Before I get into the meat of this discussion lets first start with this;

I wish this to be a fair and objective discussion on the issue of ranged(xbow/archer) in this game and for flaming, raging and hate to be left out of this discussion so we can actually come to together with a solution to this "problem" and leave people happy. Now I know this is asking a lot out of lobbyist from both sides of the discussion but if we can stop being dicks to each other for a short while I believe that we can all find a balanced solution.

Now for the meat. The problem with ranged.

1. There are a lot of ranged. The more ranged there are the more difficult it becomes to take them down. As we all know it is easier to fight a 4 v 1  against melee than it is against archers.

But why are there so many ranged?

2. Archery and xbow's are far to easy to pick up and be able to learn to use. as I stated in this thread, http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/ranged-56629/ , the time it takes to properly learn how to be a ranged bundle of sticks is miniscule compared to how long it takes to be proficient in melee. That is why so many new and old people have picked up ranged. In short it is too easy to be good at ranged.

So what can we do to solve problem #1? obviously the answer would be to reduce the amount of ranged. But how do that? I believe that we have to deal with issue #2 for that.

So how are we going to make archery hard to learn? That's what I want to discuss here.

The things that I think need to be avoided are the usual "grab a shield" or "nerf ranged" easy answers. grab a shield doesn't work because we don't want to be forced to play a class. nerf ranged doesn't work because we don't want to decrease their potential or the ranged who are genuine in their dedication to the class are going to get screwed.

So I believe that what we need is to make ranged harder to master, not nerf it all together.

but what can we do to do that? that's where we need this discussion and here in the OP I will put all ideas that are put forth so please discuss

Ideas:
-Remove Crosshairs for ranged http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/ranged-56629/ (Wolfsblood)

-Decrease time until ranged crosshairs become inaccurate http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/ranged-56629/msg915857/#msg915857 (san_of_chaos)

-Templar steevee's changes  http://forum.melee.org/game-balance-discussion/how-to-nerf-archery-without-destroying-it/msg913271/#msg913271

-Tighter crosshairs (more accurate) but slower projectiles, more projectile dip, bigger crosshair when running and longer time to settle when you stop, less damage unless you hit the head (smaller target), Less stagger when you shoot something, Less ammo so you have to be careful with your shots (Grumbs)

- Arrows should not break shields. (Unless it's arena shield or some weakling-crap) (BlueKnight)

-archers ammo should just get decreased (Prinz_Karl)

-create a class limit/competition on servers  http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/battle-mode-decrease-archers-crossbowmen-and-cavalry-by-a-set-percentage/?topicseen (Riddaren)

[Rebelyell]

there is like over 9000 topics about it still going on dude...

[Wolfsblood]

yes but most of them are filled with hate from lobbyist and we could do with a compendium if these ideas

[Grumbs]

Killing a good player with ranged should take the same skill as killing him in melee.

Tighter crosshairs (more accurate) but slower projectiles, more projectile dip, bigger crosshair when running and longer time to settle when you stop, less damage unless you hit the head (smaller target)

Less stagger when you shoot something

Less ammo so you have to be careful with your shots

This thread will probably go to chamber of tears though or be locked since we have so many atm

[Gnjus]

I wish this to be a fair and objective discussion on the issue of ranged(xbow/archer) in this game

Stopped reading at this point.

[Wolfsblood]

Hey anything is possible right? 

[Rebelyell]

yes but most of them are filled with hate from lobbyist and we could do with a compendium if these ideas

and you believe that will be a different one?

[Wolfsblood]

well its worth a try, isn't it?

[San]

I wish there was more of a timing aspect to ranged. It should be more fun to dodge and predict ranged shots than how it is currently. When fighting multiple ranged as a shielder, I prefer archers since I can time when to switch my facing direction to block multiple archers at once. Holding indefinitely and waiting for the dodger to get bored just makes things frustrating. Of course, other aspects that help with dodging such as missile speed should be tweaked to add more skill with leading shots.

Inaccuracy is not fun for both sides since it adds too many random elements. How do you dodge something when you're not sure if it will veer off and hit you? How can you attack with a huge ass reticule? That's probably why I dislike throwing's current implementation, since many just throw in your general direction as quickly as possible, and the ones that are consistently accurate are simply an enigma to me.

[Wolfsblood]

That's one of the problems isn't it? to make something that is consistent and reliable but not necessarily easier than anything else. 

[Leshma]

there is like over 9000 topics about it still going on dude...

But we all know who started original nerf ranged topic

[Kafein]

But we all know who started original nerf ranged topic

You remember that thread rufio made that had a title like "Bows..." or something vaguely similar and ended up with more than 100 pages ?

[Prinz_Karl]

I'm the opinion that archers ammo should just get decreased. Until the archer madness won't stop I will hop into a shield alt.

Also archers/crossbow have to pay for their range advantage. So they shouldn't complain when their class is worse than others, which it isn't right now.

[Penitent]

There is no issue of ranged imo.

[BlueKnight]

-> Arrows should not break shields. (Unless it's arena shield or some weakling-crap)