Missile speed

[Osakasa]

I write this in the perspective of HA
I played a lot with my HA main, maybe some +100M exp, and i dare to say i played well.

My build:
24/18 (lvl32)
Power Draw 8
Riding 6
Horse Archery 3
Weapon Master 6 -> archery wpf ~150

I'm sure my effective wpf was pretty low compare to normal archer builds but that didn't bothered me. I noticed that the missile of Horn Bow (requirement 5, so my PD8 gets full power still) is so damn high the aiming was still pretty easy. The Low wpf never bothered me either on horseback or on foot. ofc as a HA it's easier to move near your target than normal foot archer, horse gives you that advantage. However normal foot archers can "fortify" themselves where infs and cavs have hard to reach (on roof, high slopes...) so when bad guys are coming, archers can either start to shoot them or escape (Templar Steevee with ATH9 is pretty much fastest animal on the battlefield  , so archers CAN run). If they decice to hold their position, the target is coming closer so shooting becomes easier like a HA can move closer to target. Only difference is that normal foot archers have higher effective wpf so rate of fire is better and they can hold their aim longer.

Despite my low effective wpf i could easily play 3:1 KD and want to say that this was a time before the first archer buff patch. Then came august 10th with new updates. HOLY what the hell! Missile speed got buffed, nice. +3 bows and arrows weren't needed for higher damage and HX got hard nerf. Totally HA dream come true. So i start to shoot people like good HAs do, noticed that polearms cannot hit me, 2h guys' lolstab wasn't long enough after all. All what they can try to do is hide and run and hide more. shielders? how about them? well i learned that you can encircle them even with +0 desert horse. just ride around those poor bastards while they are holding their shield and finally shoot them in the back. A single headshot with PD8 in close distance was usually enough to stop their misery. HX? Everybody was happy when HX got nerfed, no more OP_Piece_of_shit (i believe Strudog's STF?) running wild and killing with 20-1 stats. Well, OP_piece_of_shit and Hate_more were only players who gave me hard time and manage kill my horse.

The newest patch gave more wpf for archers, some +10? well, that isn't game breaking, really. As i said, low effective wpf was never a problem for me. I would invest those "extra" wpf maybe to 1h so archers can defense themselves better in melee (also making them harder to kill). What i ask is archers' opinion about the missile speed. Do you think it would be something totally terrible thing if missile speed is decreased by 2? 2 or 3? I know "small" bows have higher missile speed than "big" bows but in generally. If the missile speed was lower, it would ruin this low effective wpf builds because you need to aim longer and evaluate where your target it moving. It wouldn't be possible rely on bullet straing shoots anymore. Arrows wouldn't hit your target 0.1 sec after you release them. Archery would be more difficult and "top" archers would earn their reputation.

Archers, give your opinion.

If you are about to write "fuck you all range" "nerf that shit to ground" ect. please don't

Thanks
Osa|Kasa|la

[Angellore]

Archery is pretty much fine as it is now. Just two things I would like to see changed:

1) Low tier bows has too high missile speed, which also affects their damage. For example, after missile speed buff, Horn Bow deals almost same damage as Rus Bow (tested and confirmed 2 days ago). In theory Rus Bow has 4 damage advantage, but while testing it looks more like 1 dmg difference, because Horn Bow got 5 missile speed more (I suspect 2 missile speed adds about 1 damage). Also, having high missile speed makes it very accurate over distance, and it's 1 slot, very fast bow. You can use it as Horse Archer too. Right now Horn Bow has just too many advantages, imo it's overbuffed with too high missile speed.

2) HA shooting speed should be decreased slightly. As much as I love my HA char, it shouldn't shoot as fast as archers on the ground. If it's impossible to decrease shooting speed on horses only, then maybe set just two bows as usable on horse and decrease their shooting speed in stats?

1. Revert patch buffing non loomed archery gear.
2. Decrease amount of arrows per quiver (17 or 16 bodkins on +3 should be ok)
3. Reduce fire ratio for bows while shooting from horseback (devs done it to HX, so i think they can do it for bows)
4. Lower missile speed for low tier bows (Long bow should have highest missile speed, but it stay just like it is atm, rest should have lower missile speed with rule: lower dmg ->  lower missile speed)
5. Lower a bit amount of dmg added by arrows

The problem with your propostion is, you want to nerf almost every single element of archery same time. Decrease damage, decrease missile speed, decrease amount of arrows. I agree with green changes, but I don't think whole archery is broken atm, especially archery with 2 slot bows. The problem starts with 1 slot bows, which are way too effective after missile speed change. Horn Bow after missile speed change has damage similar to Rus Bow, while being faster, more accurate, 1 slot. Almost all players who joined archery recently uses Horn Bow, because it's now way too good bow. Maybe just revert this change and see what will happen then?
Crosshair compare - Long Bow vs Horn Bow:
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Having 190 WPF in archery, you can keep this accuracy for ~1.5 second with Long Bow, and ~2 seconds with Horn Bow, so Horn Bow has advantage here as well. Because of high shooting rate, much higher missile speed and better accuracy, Horn Bow now feels more like a gun. Damage of Horn Bow is also too high, because higher missile speed increased it's damage. In my opinion, missile speed patch was a mistake, it made lower tier bows, like Horn Bow, super accurate shooting machine with completely fine damage. Those bows are cheaper and requires less PD for a reason, they shouldn't be as effective (even more effective at the moment) than high tier bows.

But no one cares anyway .

[Templar_Steevee]

Missile speed IMO should be defined in this way:
Higher requirement->Higher DMG-> Higher missile speed

I't annoying that even short bow have higher missile speed than my long bow...

[Rebelyell]

fuck you all range, nerf that shit to ground

[Adamar]

<.<  >.>  <.<    Leave my longbow alone!

1 slot bows got better at killing me at some point, but since complaining about that is lame, no mention of it, but there it is. IDK if 1slot bows where buffed to counter elite archers or help the leveling process, but apparently the most annoying builbs profited since then. I can't say if its fair to nerf them though.

[Osakasa]

Missile speed IMO should be defined in this way:
Higher requirement->Higher DMG-> Higher missile speed

I't annoying that even short bow have higher missile speed than my long bow...

i agreed 100%
Then Rus Bow and Long Bow would be for foot archers
Yumi, Horn Bow and Tatar Bow for HAs. Horn Bow is a good bow for castle and small maps on foot too, little less effective than big ones.
Bow, Nomad Bow and Short Bow for low level archers.

All bows would still have a purpose in game, maybe last three little less but hey, no one uses practice sword nor club than peasants and Fuma Kotaro (side note, do archers use any other arrows than Bodkins and Tatar? i think not)

In my experience, it felt stupid that it is possible to sniper shoot people on horseback from long distance with Horn Bow only because that high missile speed. PD8 makes sure that the shot will hurt even from far distance. If missile speed was decreased by 2-3 and "small" bows had smaller value, foot archers would use a lot powerfull bow than HAs but i think HA is stronger class in battle than foot archers. This adjustment would compesante classes to be equally strong, maybe HA is still sligtly stronger because movement.

[Lactating Vegetables]

(side note, do archers use any other arrows than Bodkins and Tatar? i think not)

Well to be fair, i primarily used the first set of Arrows as my main ammo.

[Prpavi]

I use Yumi on my HA and like it way more than Horn Bow so i guess I don't really care about high missle speed 

[WITCHCRAFT]

Have you tried the "Bow" (4PD 2 slot one)? I am using it currently and really like it. Cheaper than rus/long bow, faster, and nearly on par with rus bow for damage. Can't be used on horseback, so no HA use for it.

(side note, do archers use any other arrows than Bodkins and Tatar? i think not)

I like barbed arrows +3 I am borrowing from the armory. Lots of ammo from one slot, and 1 less damage than tatar.

[Zerobot1]

Yep I feel like a complete idiot using 2 slot bows right now, this one grinds my gears.

[Rumblood]

Right now the bows all have their purpose. I use Yumi, Horn, Tatar, and Nomad from HA depending on the situation. On foot, I like the harder hitters. Also, I use Arrows and occasionally swap in a stack of bodkins.

[Templar_Steevee]

Yep I feel like a complete idiot using 2 slot bows right now, this one grinds my gears.

Don't worry Zerobot, I feel just like you, but I won't use those pew-pew bows, because i think it's too easy. For me longbow is the best anyway, no matter what

[Jarlek]

Lower missile speed of bows.

Make PD increase missile speed more than it do now.


You want a high missile speed? Go STR archer.

[Rebelyell]

Lower missile speed of bows.

Make PD increase missile speed more than it do now.


You want a high missile speed? Go STR archer.

that is really good idea...

[CrazyCracka420]

Realism smealism, I think the lower tier bows (that draw the fastest) should also have the lowest missile speed...not the highest.

So they can reach full draw the quickest, and also shoot the fastest missiles?  Internal bow balance is fucked.