How to nerf archery, without destroying it.

[Templar_Steevee]

Nice suggestion... Maybe remove bows and add ranged 2h weapons?

En-dotter, I know that suggestions will hit the most bows up to 4 PD. That also means that wyour beloved bow will also havea na nerf.
Only thing wich you will have to learn again is aiming with a bit slower missile speed, dmg nerf will be noticed by all archers, but that will be tiny (1 or 2 dmg in my opinion) nerf.

It looks like you want to have a laser blaster made of cheap tatar or nomad bow. Your bow will stay still freaking fast and accurate, only missile aseed will decrease, nothing more.

ATM even short bow have higher missile speed than Long Bow... ubershit...

Kafein

You are talking about Increasing accuracy, but atm 3 and less PD bows are like sniper rifles combined with semi-automatic  guns. with tatar bow i have a pin-point accuracy.

[Kafein]

Kafein

You are talking about Increasing accuracy, but atm 3 and less PD bows are like sniper rifles combined with semi-automatic  guns. with tatar bow i have a pin-point accuracy.

Well, maybe the bigger bows should be made more interesting than the smaller ones then (I think you agree)

[Leshma]

Even I played as an archer once. One gen decided not to retire at lvl 31 but to keep leveling. Had level 33 archer. Of course, I used Longbow or Rusbow. Those tiny bows just look silly and shouldn't be dangerous for anyone wearing some armor.

[Grumbs]

Good accuracy is OK as long as the shot is difficult to land. Killing a good player should take the same skill from a ranged as it does in melee. This is the biggest problem we have. The depth of melee combat is so deep compared to ranged pointing and clicking

All of these changes we can make are still band aids. The main issue is that melee combat had 90% of the development time from Taleworlds. Ranged is like it is tacked on as an afterthought

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

The loom thing should not go, if damage should be nerfed I'd like to see it a global 2 damage nerf to all throwing/bows and then a 15 damage nerf to all xbows. Just because you nerded out grinding for 400 hours doesn't mean you sholud get benefits.

[Templar_Steevee]

The loom thing should not go, if damage should be nerfed I'd like to see it a global 2 damage nerf to all throwing/bows and then a 15 damage nerf to all xbows. Just because you nerded out grinding for 400 hours doesn't mean you sholud get benefits.

You should read more carefully. I'm talking about Archery only.
Global nerf for dmf will come from nerfing arrows dmg. Max dmg you can get on bows will be same as we have now on non loomed items (because looming bows is only changing accuracy and speed atm). Reverting byff patch for non loomed bows will hit only guys who is playing this class because "it's so OP, i can fight it back, i'll use it to" and they have non loomed equip.

[En_Dotter]

En-dotter, I know that suggestions will hit the most bows up to 4 PD. That also means that wyour beloved bow will also havea na nerf.
Only thing wich you will have to learn again is aiming with a bit slower missile speed, dmg nerf will be noticed by all archers, but that will be tiny (1 or 2 dmg in my opinion) nerf.

It looks like you want to have a laser blaster made of cheap tatar or nomad bow. Your bow will stay still freaking fast and accurate, only missile aseed will decrease, nothing more.

ATM even short bow have higher missile speed than Long Bow... ubershit...

Kafein

You are talking about Increasing accuracy, but atm 3 and less PD bows are like sniper rifles combined with semi-automatic  guns. with tatar bow i have a pin-point accuracy.

Seems that you dont pay attention to the bow(s) i use. I use tatar bow, horn bow and long bow. All for different situations. This isnt about my "fav" bow and i think i shoot as badly with nomad/tatar as i do with long, so i dont need to "adjust" to the nerf adjustment u are proposing. Maybe cus i use different bows i dont know... Anyway im sick and tired of "nerf archer" threads and constant whining of 2h heroes and archers-wanna-suck-up-to-2h-heroes. Before nerfing ranged (for the nth time) maybe nerf all stabs. Maybe resolve wse 2.0 issues, maybe suggest something useful for this game, like fixing things that are really broken and stop bitching about stuff that kills u.
And yea, you are the long bow user, and at this point as every child would say: "Well, you know... i was like... he had a long bow and like, he like cant do shit to like me... and i like used like nomad like bow and like i like killed him so easy like and he rage quit. Then he like, went to the forum and like he said like NERF NOMAD BOW CUS LIKE THEY KILL ME AND IM SAD". Srsly man get a grip...

[Grumbs]

You shouldn't get a free pass based on the class you choose. Ranged is not PVP most of the time, so it should be balanced according to the difficulty involved in top melee vs melee play.

Why should you kill a good player just because you pointed and clicked on him, or slightly infront of him? Its rock/paper/scissors and doesn't belong in this type of pvp game

Increase the skill and difficulty of ranged play to coincide will melee vs melee, thats all I ask

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

You should read more carefully. I'm talking about Archery only.
Global nerf for dmf will come from nerfing arrows dmg. Max dmg you can get on bows will be same as we have now on non loomed items (because looming bows is only changing accuracy and speed atm). Reverting byff patch for non loomed bows will hit only guys who is playing this class because "it's so OP, i can fight it back, i'll use it to" and they have non loomed equip.

I don't believe nerfing archers without nerfing xbowies and maybe throwers is a good idea, I'm well aware of all that, I don't believe it's fair that just because they don't have looms archery should be way less playable for them than for standard players, I'd rather just see an all around slight damage nerf.

[Dolphin]

Seems that you dont pay attention to the bow(s) i use. I use tatar bow, horn bow and long bow. All for different situations. This isnt about my "fav" bow and i think i shoot as badly with nomad/tatar as i do with long, so i dont need to "adjust" to the nerf adjustment u are proposing. Maybe cus i use different bows i dont know... Anyway im sick and tired of "nerf archer" threads and constant whining of 2h heroes and archers-wanna-suck-up-to-2h-heroes. Before nerfing ranged (for the nth time) maybe nerf all stabs. Maybe resolve wse 2.0 issues, maybe suggest something useful for this game, like fixing things that are really broken and stop bitching about stuff that kills u.
And yea, you are the long bow user, and at this point as every child would say: "Well, you know... i was like... he had a long bow and like, he like cant do shit to like me... and i like used like nomad like bow and like i like killed him so easy like and he rage quit. Then he like, went to the forum and like he said like NERF NOMAD BOW CUS LIKE THEY KILL ME AND IM SAD". Srsly man get a grip...

Calm down and write in a contructive manner, steevee havent insulted you.

[En_Dotter]

Also one more thing about speed differences between "small" bows and "big" bows. It has been mentioned when the patch was implemented and it was discussed afterwards. Big bows used heavier arrows and small bows used light arrows. Big arrows - heavy - heavy means slower and more damage. Small arrows mean light - light arrows mean more speed and less damage. Its up to you to choose speed or damage (like bastard sword vs great maul).

EDIT:

Calm down and write in a contructive manner, steevee havent insulted you.

Yes he did. This entire thread he made is an insult to me and i cant calm down. But tnx for your concern.

[Kafein]

Also one more thing about speed differences between "small" bows and "big" bows. It has been mentioned when the patch was implemented and it was discussed afterwards. Big bows used heavier arrows and small bows used light arrows. Big arrows - heavy - heavy means slower and more damage. Small arrows mean light - light arrows mean more speed and less damage. Its up to you to choose speed or damage (like bastard sword vs great maul).

A realism argument in a balance thread

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Strudog]

Also one more thing about speed differences between "small" bows and "big" bows. It has been mentioned when the patch was implemented and it was discussed afterwards. Big bows used heavier arrows and small bows used light arrows. Big arrows - heavy - heavy means slower and more damage. Small arrows mean light - light arrows mean more speed and less damage. Its up to you to choose speed or damage (like bastard sword vs great maul).

EDIT:
Yes he did. This entire thread he made is an insult to me and i cant calm down. But tnx for your concern.

But don't you use bodkins with your Horn bow?

Archer numbers were fine before the free respec and wpf change, and now its just ranged galore, great suggestions stevee, these are the people we need balancing the game, not those that dont play it. I used to crave playing this game if i didnt play it for a while, now i couldn't give two flying fucks whether i don't play it for weeks on end.

[Templar_Steevee]

Seems that you dont pay attention to the bow(s) i use. I use tatar bow, horn bow and long bow. All for different situations. This isnt about my "fav" bow and i think i shoot as badly with nomad/tatar as i do with long, so i dont need to "adjust" to the nerf adjustment u are proposing. Maybe cus i use different bows i dont know... Anyway im sick and tired of "nerf archer" threads and constant whining of 2h heroes and archers-wanna-suck-up-to-2h-heroes. Before nerfing ranged (for the nth time) maybe nerf all stabs. Maybe resolve wse 2.0 issues, maybe suggest something useful for this game, like fixing things that are really broken and stop bitching about stuff that kills u.
And yea, you are the long bow user, and at this point as every child would say: "Well, you know... i was like... he had a long bow and like, he like cant do shit to like me... and i like used like nomad like bow and like i like killed him so easy like and he rage quit. Then he like, went to the forum and like he said like NERF NOMAD BOW CUS LIKE THEY KILL ME AND IM SAD". Srsly man get a grip...

trust me, i have no problem to shoot back and kill guys using pew pew bows i learned it. For me bigger problem are guys with x-bows. I want to change only one thing in low tier bows: missile speed, nothing else. It should be logic relation Stronger bow-> Higher dmg-> Higher missile speed. It's comming from fundamental phisics laws.

[XyNox]

Getting all in one from last nerf archery topic i suggest to:

1. Revert patch buffing non loomed archery gear.
2. Decrease amount of arrows per quiver (17 or 16 bodkins on +3 should be ok)
3. Reduce fire ratio for bows while shooting from horseback (devs done it to HX, so i think they can do it for bows)
4. Lower missile speed for low tier bows (Long bow should have highest missile speed, but it stay just like it is atm, rest should have lower missile speed with rule: lower dmg ->  lower missile speed)
5. Lower a bit amount of dmg added by arrows

IMO as an archer after this patch I'll be forced to stop spamming arrows if I would like to keep some for end of the round, and i'll have lower dmg (if i'll use non loomed gear)

Plenty archers are using non loomed bows (i can see it because i'm using hireloom models boss pack), so after patch they will GTX from archery or will start using slower and less acurate, but stronger and more expensive bows. HA will also stop to being a raiding gatling guns.

As a high lvl, fully loomed pure archer you could survive those changes just fine I guess. An archer hybrid though, who already takes only 1 quiver and is bound to low tier bows will be completely destroyed. I tried going 4 PD after the respec and am using my bow primarily for sniping enemy ranged and agi runners, hence carrying one quiver of tatars ( because with 2 there is no footwork for melee fights, even though I would have the spare slot ). Shooting armored inf with 4 PD is just a waste ammo in most cases.

So what would happen ? Most hybrids would probably go pure longbow bodkin archer, even more ranged damage, even more "Steevee's", even more QQ. I sure would go back to pure longbow archer. I understand your intentions Steevee but nerfing a class to make it less desirable to play to reduce their numbers is just poor game design. Neither I think that the ranged situation we have right now is good but I am sure there are enough ways to reduce numbers without actually having to mess with any stats.