Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Tovi]

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[Christo]

It's interesting how little the media talks about the Ukraine conflict where I live, when we have a border with them, so close.

Propaganda machine is busy elsewhere, I suppose.

[Vovka]

Exactly and government has already agreed to accept most of protesters demands, but while Russia keep feeding protests with "american mercenaries" and "chocolate chip cookie punishers that are planning to do genocide in eastern regions" these negotiations won't succeed, no matter what government will propose.

ukranian government did everything to calm the people) has shifted all of the legally elected mayors and government, replacing them with the oligarchs, has not shown that fully controls maydan, sent army, tanks and multiple rocket launchers on the eastern territories) Obviously the Government is fully adequate and control the situation ) even if they were afraid that Russia will bring the troops they must to understand that to Russia is harder to deal with resistance of local people than rotten army of ukraine. But after all these actions, the local population will not rise to defend his Goverment. So or everything goes as planned, or Turchinov just an idiot and just didnt know what to do as didnt know Medvedev in "war" with Georgia ((

[serr]

has shifted all of the legally elected mayors and government, replacing them with the oligarchs

Em.. no. They didn't shift any elected mayor. They replaced governors, who always were appointed by Kiev, they are not elected in Ukraine.  As for oligarchs - it worked perfectly in Dnipropetrovsk with Kolomoyskiy. Not good enough in Donetsk with Taruta, true, still I'm not sure if it would be better without him.

has not shown that fully controls maydan

they are not supposed to

sent army, tanks and multiple rocket launchers on the eastern territories

Well, yes, there are many questions about actions of our army, both here and in Crimea.

[Vovka]

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Em.. no. They didn't shift any elected mayor. They replaced governors, who always were appointed by Kiev, they are not elected in Ukraine.  As for oligarchs - it worked perfectly in Dnipropetrovsk with Kolomoyskiy. Not good enough in Donetsk with Taruta, true, still I'm not sure if it would be better without him.

they are not supposed to

Well, yes, there are many questions about actions of our army, both here and in Crimea.

yep governors my bad

[Kuujis]

ukranian government did everything to calm the people) has shifted all of the legally elected mayors and government, replacing them with the oligarchs, has not shown that fully controls maydan, sent army, tanks and multiple rocket launchers on the eastern territories) Obviously the Government is fully adequate and control the situation ) even if they were afraid that Russia will bring the troops they must to understand that to Russia is harder to deal with resistance of local people than rotten army of ukraine. But after all these actions, the local population will not rise to defend his Goverment. So or everything goes as planned, or Turchinov just an idiot and just didnt know what to do as didnt know Medvedev in "war" with Georgia ((

Please remind me, how was it handled in Chechnya, i.e. what does national russian "how to quell unrest" hanbook says? Something like... waged two wars, finally installed a freak of a local dictator, of whom every local is afraid, because he is a psycho killer, who would be prosecuted everywhere else, except in russia? 

IMO - Ukraine showed MUCH restraint, frankly - I did not see anything I would object to. I would even go as far as saying they showed TOO much restraint and it cost them unfortunately.

Also remembered - there is this town, just opposite the river from Narva in Estonia, Ivangorod Narvskiy. Its mayor requested a referendum to join Estonia. Will that be allowed? Should it be allowed?

[Vovka]

Please remind me, how was it handled in Chechnya, i.e. what does national russian "how to quell unrest" hanbook says? Something like... waged two wars, finally installed a freak of a local dictator, of whom every local is afraid, because he is a psycho killer, who would be prosecuted everywhere else, except in russia? 

silly to compare the situation in Ukraine and the situation in Chechnya,
it only shows your dementia and how deeply you offended by Russia / USSR

IMO - Ukraine showed MUCH restraint, frankly - I did not see anything I would object to. I would even go as far as saying they showed TOO much restraint and it cost them unfortunately.

rather, they tried to intimidate people, but half-measures in such cases sometimes much worse.

[Kuujis]

silly to compare the situation in Ukraine and the situation in Chechnya,
it only shows your dementia and how deeply you offended by Russia / USSR

Dementia... right...

Why is it silly to compare Ukraine separatists and Chechnya separatists? Both want to split from their current country, the ones in Crimea got a referendum, the ones in Chechnya got a mad governor or a bullet. Its silly to compare OUTCOMES of both intents, but the premises... they are comparable to no end IMO.

And to revisit another question: there is this town, just opposite the river from Narva in Estonia, Ivangorod Narvskiy. Its mayor requested a referendum to join Estonia. Will that be allowed? Should it be allowed?

[Segd]

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Although, first retarded action of UA parliament after maidan was trying to pass the law of Russian language. It was like giving a candy to the Putin.

[Segd]

Why is it silly to compare Ukraine separatists and Chechnya separatists? Both want to split from their current country, the ones in Crimea got a referendum, the ones in Chechnya got a mad governor or a bullet. Its silly to compare OUTCOMES of both intents, but the premises... they are comparable to no end IMO.

How dare you! Ramzan Akhmadovich Kadyrov is a Major General, PhD & Hero of the Russian Federation * . He even killed his first Russian at the age of 16!

& what did you achieved to question him?!

* Hero of the Russian Federation is the highest honorary title of the Russian Federation.

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Btw, he looks like Joffrey(long live the king!) from game of Thrones

[serr]

Although, first retarded action of UA parliament after maidan was trying to pass the law of Russian language. It was like giving a candy to the Putin.

That action is even more retarded than it seems, because that law does nothing. It was passed in 2012, according to that russian language got regional status in some regions.. and that's all, there were no changes at all. It is merely symbolic.

Sometimes it seems that some of our deputies are kgb agents or absolute morons. Or both.

[Vovka]

Dementia... right...

Why is it silly to compare Ukraine separatists and Chechnya separatists?

read atleast 1st chechen war in wiki but not olny "english" version but also russian (use google translate) and then ask this question to yourself
love dat part : In April 1996 the first democratically elected president of Chechnya, Dzhokhar Dudayev was killed 

And to revisit another question: there is this town, just opposite the river from Narva in Estonia, Ivangorod Narvskiy. Its mayor requested a referendum to join Estonia. Will that be allowed? Should it be allowed?

if in moskow some retards with weapons will come to power our hero Ramzan Akhmadovich Kadyrov for example
why not 
btw fast googled ... he use dat trick (and he admit what dat was just a trick) twice 1st time his town got 1mil rubles next time just been ignored

Btw, he looks like Joffrey(long live the king!) from game of Thrones

 he blew up his own father he is cool!

[Vovka]

most opinion polls can not be trusted, so for example for Russia they ask like 1-2k of the residents in 100-200 settlements and then claim that the accuracy of the survey 70-80%

[serr]

Both maps are quite correct. Just many people whose native language is ukrainian speak russian in everyday life.

Another thing is that in big cities there are more russian speaking people and in villages - ukrainian speaking, which could influence results depends on where those polls were made.

Still, map Tovi posted is retarded, because that division in that context imply that russian speaking majority would support Russia, which is absolutely wrong.

[Kuujis]

read atleast 1st chechen war in wiki but not olny "english" version but also russian (use google translate) and then ask this question to yourself
love dat part : In April 1996 the first democratically elected president of Chechnya, Dzhokhar Dudayev was killed 
<...>

Ok, read some, I think the relevant part from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War#Internal_conflict_in_Chechnya_and_the_Grozny-Moscow_tensions :
However, the issue of contention was not independence from Russia: even the opposition stated there was no alternative to an international boundary separating Chechnya from Russia. In 1992, Russian newspaper Moscow News made note that, just like most of the other seceding republics except for Tatarstan, ethnic Chechens universally supported the establishment of an independent Chechen state.[12] Again, in 1995, during the heat of the First Chechen War, Khalid Delmayev, an anti-Dudayev belonging to an Ichkerian liberal coalition, stated that "Chechnya's statehood may be postponed... but cannot be avoided".[13] Opposition to Dudayev came mainly due to his domestic policy and personality: he once notoriously claimed that Russia intended to destabilize his nation by "artificially creating earthquakes" in Georgia and Armenia. This did not go off well with most Chechens, who came to view him as a national embarrassment at times (if still a patriot at others), but it did not, by any means, dismantle the determination for independence, as most Western commentators note.[14][original research?]

Moscow clandestinely supplied separatist forces with financial support, military equipment and mercenaries. Russia also suspended all civilian flights to Grozny while the aviation and border troops set up a military blockade of the republic and eventually unmarked Russian aircraft began combat operations over Chechnya. The opposition forces, who were joined by Russian troops, launched a clandestine but badly organized assault on Grozny in mid-October 1994, followed by the second, larger attack on 26–27 November 1994. Despite Russian support, both attempts were unsuccessful. In a major embarrassment for the Kremlin, Dudayev loyalists succeeded in capturing some 20 Russian Army regulars and about 50 other Russian citizens who were clandestinely hired by the Russian FSK state security organization to fight for the Provisional Council forces.[15] On 29 November, President Boris Yeltsin issued an ultimatum to all warring factions in Chechnya ordering them to disarm and to surrender. When the government in Grozny refused, Yeltsin ordered the Russian army to "restore constitutional order" by force.

I think the most relevant is the last sentence, which basically describes, how a separatist should be treated in russia:"On 29 November, President Boris Yeltsin issued an ultimatum to all warring factions in Chechnya ordering them to disarm and to surrender. When the government in Grozny refused, Yeltsin ordered the Russian army to "restore constitutional order" by force."

Then... well... what the fuck is russias problem with Ukraine government sending army to restore order?