Meanwhile in Ukraine

[BIA_ivani4]

Putin's KGB files would be interesting to read in this context

Archives Stasi, Bundesnachrichtendienst and  Militärischer Abschirmdienst are not available to you?

[Smoothrich]

Don't think so. At least not in the spotlight. Closest to female president, apart from usual candidates such as Palin or Clinton is in fact daughter of senator McCain, Meghan. But she's more of a nazi than Panos will ever be (they are rather perfect match, she is fat, Panos is fat, both hate jews, blacks and immigrants). Of course if they ever elect Meghan McCain, new secretary of defense will be Ronda Rousey

Elizabeth Warren is one of the most leftist, anti-corporate federal politicians in America (Massachusetts Senator) and there is speculation she might run for president. Since Hillary Clinton is a center-right neoliberal, Warren's politics are a fresh change for American progressives, but since her entire career has been taking on Wall Street, its doubtful she will have the money to compete with the Bush's and Clinton's of America.

[[ptx]]

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[Paul]

Someone tell her that military equipment isn't as stretchable as herself.

[Vibe]

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[Olwen]

As I said, a new shithole belt in making. Would be kinda funny if Janukowitsch gets to be the Lukaschenko there. Maybe with ivani4 as the intellectual leader behind the scenes.

Stop being so elitist. Ivani4 is the living evidence that simplicity can often be more efficient than complicated and skilled stuff.

No one should have the right to become a head of state or a member of the government, if he has a criminal record for any any crime.

Agreed, yet the french government is full of people with criminal records

[Yarl]

A Woman President would be nice for a change

I agree!

[Kafein]

I am watching this "live-line" TV right now. Putin is actually arguing for cooperation with NATO or his wish for cooperation, and is very calm. Definitely does not feel like he is trying to heat up military tension in any way. Though he called territories of Russia and Ukraine - a historically common space, of sorts. And beings brothers with Ukrainians, and how anti-Russian forces are planting seeds of hatred between our friendly nations, and such.
 
Idk... My judgment must be clouded, since I am Russian myself, but Putin does not look/talk like a bloodthirsty dictator It might be cleverly chosen/selected questions he is being asked by common people ( it's live TV ) - but Putin seems to be calming everyone down, and is very peaceful. People who are calling, are mostly angry about all sorts of things.

Putin is doing what NK has been doing since forever. Testing the international community's patience : dick move, a few years of appeasing tension then dick move again. Georgia was in 2008. In the meantime Obama had the great idea of also appeasing tensions, which apparently only served Putin. In a fair fight it's a case of either MAD or Russia loses (be it economically, politically or militarily), of course Putin is trying to be peaceful and appease tensions after he got what he wanted. Doing anything else would be stupid.

[Falka]

One thing I learned at this forum , is never try to argue with morons like Oberyn, Molly and Kafein, just troll them and then leave them bitching around.

[okiN]

So they've cut a deal.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27072351

Sounds pretty good, assuming all sides stick to the agreement and they're actually able to get the separatists to stand down. Have to see how that goes.

[Butan]

This seems like a farce: how could EU/US/RUS disarm and dissolve ukrainian-made military formations on Ukraine soil? If they want to continue the revolt, they will, a foreign policy is useless at best, at worst going to put oil on the fire. Those that still believe that the Eastern Ukraine pro-RUS crisis is 100% RUS made will wake up soon.
If EU/US/RUS still has agents/forces/drones/surveillance in Ukraine, they can continue even after such an announcement.

The amnesty offer is the same that Yanukovich offered to those who occupied buildings in central-western Ukraine days before he was ousted.
Basically, its a morale announcement on the fact that they both want the situation to de-escalate, but they have no legitimacy, no power, no tool to influence the escalation or de-escalation of the ongoing revolt of the pro-RUS Ukrainian people.

[Eugen]

Funny. Putin shows how to occupy others territroy. East Ucraines people follow his example. Now truly, why is Putin allowed to occupy land and "freedom fighters" are not allowed to occupy buildings. Its just not fair. 

This just refers to the BBC news. Not that I think any of this occupying is any good.

[serr]

This seems like a farce: how could EU/US/RUS disarm and dissolve ukrainian-made military formations on Ukraine soil? If they want to continue the revolt, they will, a foreign policy is useless at best, at worst going to put oil on the fire. Those that still believe that the Eastern Ukraine pro-RUS crisis is 100% RUS made will wake up soon.
If EU/US/RUS still has agents/forces/drones/surveillance in Ukraine, they can continue even after such an announcement.

Depends on what you call RUS made. If you include consequences of russian propaganda here then it is 95-99% RUS made. If Russia wanted to de-escalate conflict there and find compromise without eastern regions splitting from Ukraine - it would be very easy for them to calm protesters. In that case there would still be some problems with retarded ukrainian nationalists, but problems completely solvable solely by Ukraine, there are not really that many of them. However there is no reason to believe Russia at the moment.

[Butan]

I dont think they created the movement, but they have fed it, as much as maidan was fed by eu.

Either way, it is too late to stop it, the civilians have joined the fray, tons of videos showing that. Even if the first or part of the para-military groups are russian soldiers sent to create dissent, Ukrainian people followed their example and took arms, created barricades in front of local center of power, claiming control of regions.


The only way to stop it, is through internal negotiations, not international policy... Except if they send EU/US/RUS soldiers en masse going in rebelled cities and asking them to surrender. Even that isnt a sure appeasing move.
If everyone keep being stubborn, the only scenarios I see are a counter-maidan (new-new government, or losing territories to Russia again), or a Lybia - Yugoslavia - Vietnam scenario (by order of increased foreign intervention).

[serr]

The only way to stop it, is through internal negotiations, not international policy...

Exactly and government has already agreed to accept most of protesters demands, but while Russia keep feeding protests with "american mercenaries" and "chocolate chip cookie punishers that are planning to do genocide in eastern regions" these negotiations won't succeed, no matter what government will propose.