Meanwhile in Ukraine

[BIA_ivani4]

lets just nuke eastern europe and call it a day

You from Texas? Or are you a friend?  :

[Havoco]

You from Texas? Or are you a friend?  :

He's just a furry.

[Nessaj]

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/03/28/putin_calls_obama_to_discuss_resolution_to_ukraine_crisis.html

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Butan]

Oh, didnt even read that Klitschko had withdrew (running for Kiev mayorship instead) and endorsed someone else, pretty sure he will win then, if they dont fuck something up or a new bad recording is leaked.
You said he was in previous government but didnt take direct actions, how is it possible? Afaik, as long as you're a member of a government, appointed by the president himself, you are somewhat stained by what they did overall, how did he manages to stay relatively "clean" in the eyes of the people?

Also why is he listed as "Independant", he has no official political party behind him? Never had?


Also that part of the wiki doesnt surprise me 

Poroshenko supports Ukrainian NATO-membership and stated in December 2009 "I believe that with a political will and a public wish to do so, public support for politicians in charge, and a clear and right awareness policy, becoming a NATO member could be accomplished within a year or two". However he also stated NATO membership should not be a goal in itself "Our goal must be conducting reforms, improving living standards. I believe that here we must do everything to improve the situation in the country rather than obtain somebody's permission for some actions".[17]

Although dismissed on 11 March 2010 as foreign minister President Viktor Yanukovych expressed hope for further cooperation with Poroshenko.[6]

So the winner may well be a pro-US/EU, supported by pro-US/EU; even if he is moderate it will be enough to get tense relationship with Russia, because he will most probably open his arms to everything Russia doesnt want: the crimean crisis could even be the basis of "protecting ourselves against exterior influence". The talk about digging themselves up against the east, could mean Ukraine will become the newest/closest most important entrenching country to counter Russian influence, after the baltic states.

Or is he moderate even in foreign policy matters? We will know as soon as he form his government and appoint the important ministers of foreign affairs and police/army.

[serr]

You said he was in previous government but didnt take direct actions, how is it possible? Afaik, as long as you're a member of a government, appointed by the president himself, you are somewhat stained by what they did overall, how did he manages to stay relatively "clean" in the eyes of the people?

2nd Minister of Trade and Economic Development
23 March 2012 – 24 December 2012

As you can see he wasn't there for long and his post wasn't one of those that usually cause complaints(such as internal affairs for example)

On other hand the fact that he was there was the reason why he didn't become prime minister instead of Yatsenyuk - one of demands of maidan was that anyone who was in Azarov's government couldn't enter new government.

So the winner may well be a pro-US/EU, supported by pro-US/EU; even if he is moderate it will be enough to get tense relationship with Russia, because he will most probably open his arms to everything Russia doesnt want: the crimean crisis could even be the basis of "protecting ourselves against exterior influence". The talk about digging themselves up against the east, could mean Ukraine will become the newest/closest most important entrenching country to counter Russian influence, after the baltic states.

Or is he moderate even in foreign policy matters? We will know as soon as he form his government and appoint the important ministers of foreign affairs and police/army.

Well, he is definitely pro-US/EU and realationship with Russia will be tense anyway for many years from now, but he is smart enough not to introduce visa regime with Russia, like some of out new rulers tried to do recently( Yatsenyuk refused to do it though) and make other provocative steps that wouldn't bring anything but worse relations with Russia.

As for joining NATO... Like it or not but if Ukraine was member of NATO, Crimea still would be part of Ukraine.
Ukraine can join NATO only after national referendum about it. Year ago such referendum would fail. Now.. it is likely that it will succeed and Russia can blame only itself here.

Or is he moderate even in foreign policy matters?

Not sure about his foreign policy. We already had bad relations with Russia when he was minister of foreign affairs, but that was mostly if not fully because of Yushchenko. Don't remember any significant decisions from him.

We will know as soon as he form his government and appoint the important ministers of foreign affairs and police/army.

Poroshenko already said that he won't reform government if he win, just will strengthen some posts.

[Oberyn]

You from Texas? Or are you a friend?  :

More incredible irony from racist russians crying about "chocolate chip cookies". Looking at all the european extreme far-right and neochocolate chip cookies, they all openly support and admire Putler's actions, for some strange and unfathomable reason (lol). Maybe it's because they believe in the exact same propaganda and ideology the russian state controlled media has been blaring out endlessly. The "west" is decadent, riddled by homosexuals and inferior brown immigrants, losing the traditional values that made them great, manipulated by judaic-massonic NWO.
Russians also have a gigantic chip on their shoulder from the collapse of the Soviet Union (very Germany post WW1 Versailles Treaty), so they compensate by masturbating furiously to Strongman Putin and military power, not to mention the constant out in the light racism that is ignored by useful idiots. I'm getting tired of repeating myself, but the parrallels to chocolate chip cookie Germany are so blindingly obvious only a fucking ignorant moron like Butan could take it as exaggeration. 
Dit moi Butan, t'habites Paris?

[BIA_ivani4]

More incredible irony from racist russians crying about "chocolate chip cookies". Looking at all the european extreme far-right and neochocolate chip cookies, they all openly support and admire Putler's actions, for some strange and unfathomable reason (lol). Maybe it's because they believe in the exact same propaganda and ideology the russian state controlled media has been blaring out endlessly. The "west" is decadent, riddled by homosexuals and inferior brown immigrants, losing the traditional values that made them great, manipulated by judaic-massonic NWO.
Russians also have a gigantic chip on their shoulder from the collapse of the Soviet Union (very Germany post WW1 Versailles Treaty), so they compensate by masturbating furiously to Strongman Putin and military power, not to mention the constant out in the light racism that is ignored by useful idiots. I'm getting tired of repeating myself, but the parrallels to chocolate chip cookie Germany are so blindingly obvious only a fucking ignorant moron like Butan could take it as exaggeration. 
Dit moi Butan, t'habites Paris?

I'm glad to see your message, Oberyn . Long you we didn't write. But you're living. I was upset, you're gone. Thought was killed or injured you, hero of Ukraine. You are the only man from Ukraine, on this forum, which clearly expresses his position. You, really, the Living Shit out of Ukraine.

[serr]

  Then Tovi is the only man from Russia, on this forum, which clearly expresses his position.

[BIA_ivani4]

Then Tovi is the only man from Russia, on this forum, which clearly expresses his position.

Хм.. Однако... И тем не менее!

[Oberyn]

Self-determination of peoples is just SO important to Russia. I can't wait for dagestani and tchetchen and turkmen and chinese referendum, who will all obviously vote to stay with Great Mother Russia. On the other hand, they're not the right race (i.e russian), so their self-determination is obviously wrong and bad.

[serr]

Хм.. Однако... И тем не менее!

Может ты не это имел в виду, но они оба французы 

Self-determination of peoples is just SO important to Russia. I can't wait for dagestani and tchetchen referendum, who will obviously vote to stay with Great Mother Russia. On the other hand, they're not the right race (i.e russian), so their self-determination is obviously wrong and bad.

Russia's laws don't include anything about quitting Russian Federation, so won't happen.
Unless some local self-defence forces show up 

[BIA_ivani4]

Self-determination of peoples is just SO important to Russia. I can't wait for dagestani and tchetchen and turkmen and chinese referendum, who will all obviously vote to stay with Great Mother Russia. On the other hand, they're not the right race (i.e russian), so their self-determination is obviously wrong and bad.

The self-identification Name
People sometimes change the name. As a rule they are artists or other people «fine spiritual orientation».
Surname people (men) have changed too. But only if they are ashamed of the behavior and actions of their ancestors. If one respects/is proud of his ancestors, he will never change his name (it may not even decently pronounced).
And with Nations. If anyone remembers, if respected business ancestors if you proud of the deeds... Nation will not disappear. It's an identity on a national basis.

[BIA_ivani4]

 People without identity - gavno hole. He has no landmarks. He has no point of reference. Where a good and a bad. "He is seeking". Persons without nationality in our big world is already shit in a large river.
БлЪ, хреново но по английски 
Russia is not Europe. Russia is not the middle East. In Russia many religions. In Russia many nationalities. And even «dagestani » is not a nationality is many nationalities. We can and know how to respect traditions and customs of other people.
And « turkmen» have their country. A separate independent country Turkmenistan. The richest in the post-Soviet space. 

[Butan]

Dit moi Butan, t'habites Paris?

Non, Calais, pourquoi, tu veux débattre de l'influence des cookies dans le monde?

Self-determination of peoples is just SO important to Russia. I can't wait for dagestani and tchetchen and turkmen and chinese referendum, who will all obviously vote to stay with Great Mother Russia. On the other hand, they're not the right race (i.e russian), so their self-determination is obviously wrong and bad.

Like Corsica, Basque and all the french overseas departments and territories? And before that, the "french" Algeria? You cant call bullshit on that one Oberyn  we are both french and we understand what I mean.

If all countries supported separatist movement on the sole basis that they have the right of self-determination, we wouldnt have ~200 countries, more like 10 000+.
Right of self-determination is given to people that succeeded into liberating themselves (with or without external help), not given freely to anyone who manage to get a majority of "yes" inside his own cultural sphere. Hence why Russia fought against their separatist rebels when they could, because they dont want to be weaker.

Then of course, since Crimea "right of self determination" was in the benefit of Russia, of course they supported it?! As much as those who are enemies of Russia, discredited it! Welcome to politic.

Poroshenko already said that he won't reform government if he win, just will strengthen some posts.

I know I could get it on google but    what's the current government looking like in term of far-left to far-right power balance? From what I remember, there is some shady far-right guys at big posts.

[Yarl]

Here in Moscow we will  have  a referendum to join Empire.