Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Lt_Anders]

At least the US actually gave a formal war declaration. Russia just walked in without saying a thing.

1/3 of US disapproved the war. Why do you think in 08 the big topic was stopping the war? We don't like it, but we started it and are trying to somewhat fix the shit we fucked up.

[Xant]

Even without killing anti-iraqi war journalists, their opinions can still be conveniently ignored by mass counter-propaganda, which was what happened.

... It takes courage and bravery to be ignored now?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Call it invasion or something else, thats the same thing. If you wish to do your famous metaphysical digression on correct wording, talk to the hand.

What was your point then if you are willing to call it an invasion? You were whining that the west wasn't calling it an "intervention" because of double standards. Because it isn't an intervention. It's an invasion. So...

[Butan]

Yeah... guess Germany and their general "No" to any involvement in that war goes under "isolated minor power", huh?

Forgot Germany indeed. So all my points are invalid ? 

Dont need to be a high education people to read that diplomatic map (blue nation = nation who agreed to support Iraq war)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



I would say there wasnt many "dishounorable ally" casus belli 

[Xant]

Yeah, such minor EU countries like Germany and France were against it. But hey, one minor state here or there..

[Lt_Anders]

Forgot Germany indeed. So all my points are invalid ? 

Dont need to be a high education people to read that diplomatic map (blue nation = nation who agreed to support Iraq war)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



I would say there wasnt many "dishounorable ally" casus belli 

Wow, what a failure to actually know anything. only 4 nations actually invaded Iraq.
US, UK, Australia...and Poland. Every other country came AFTER the war and acted as peacekeepers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq

So, check your facts, fucking frog leg.

[Butan]

I am well aware most didnt actively invade (USA taking 95% of the brunt of the war itself), the main beef here is that it was politically accepted that it was the good thing to do for 90% of the NATO members and other friendly states (coalition of the willing).

I'm not saying all Russia allies should actively invade Crimea  the hypocrisy here is that the diplomatic stance over a "moralistic" cause changes whether you are friendly/unfriendly with the agressor/defender.
USA allies mostly supported Iraq war, Russia allies mostly supports Crimean intervention, pretty cynical but true.

[Lt_Anders]

I am well aware most didnt actively invade (USA taking 95% of the brunt of the war itself), the main beef here is that it was politically accepted that it was the good thing to do for 90% of the NATO members and other friendly states (coalition of the willing).

Considering they got paid and other compensation....

[Xant]

I am well aware most didnt actively invade (USA taking 95% of the brunt of the war itself), the main beef here is that it was politically accepted that it was the good thing to do for 90% of the NATO members and other friendly states (coalition of the willing).

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Iraq_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Iraq_War#Opposition_in_European_countries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Iraq_War#Opposition_throughout_the_world

And so on.

Now, your turn. Show us some proof that "it was politically accepted and the good thing to do"?

[Butan]

Your links only shows that there is anti-war people in all countries, what should I learn from this?    even when a war is unavoidable you will see people protesting in the streets to stop it asap.
Love the poll on 90% not wanting the war, did you even read the title of the poll?

The media/government were all pushing for this and won, period. Else you wouldnt even be here trying to tell me there is no possible comparisons between the two cases because there would have been no war or only concerning USA 

Now on Ukraine crisis, since both media/government of "my side of the fence" and the anti-russia/anti-war people are swimming in the same direction, god forbid someone try to go counter-current!



edit: re-reading myself I shouldnt have used the "population approval" argument, it was indeed much more divided that I tried to make it appear and I was wrong. The hypocrisy lies much deeper and more totally within the way the world diplomacy worked for those 2 different war/crisis. The population was mostly just kept in check or ignored when they didnt agree.

[Kafein]

"Yesterday, the president met with a group he calls the coalition of the willing. Or, as the rest of the world calls them, Britain and Spain." -John Stewart

[Xant]

I don't even know where to start, Butan, when your reading comprehension is at that level.

[Moncho]

In Spain, that ended up sending troops (not sure if in the invasion or the multi-national "peacekeeping" force that was mentioned), there was big complaints, and it backslashed quite bad against the government, possibly leading to the 11-march 2004 bombings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings) that had a big influence in the result of the election that happened a few days later and where the government, right wing PP under Aznar, lost.

Anyway, this thread is not about Iraq, can we get back to Ukraine? What about the storming of the Ukrainian bases in Crimea by Russian army and pro-Russian groups? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26698754). Did they offer the Ukrainians a way out, did they just storm it, or can anyone give more information on what happened?

[AntiBlitz]

What about the storming of the Ukrainian bases in Crimea by Russian army and pro-Russian groups? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26698754). Did they offer the Ukrainians a way out, did they just storm it, or can anyone give more information on what happened?

according to CNN news, the Russians claimed it was a training exercise, lol.  My mind instantly gave me the mental image of: (heavy russian accent)"dont worry friend, training exercise", next they will invade the rest of Ukraine and say "dont worry, training for real thing".

[Butan]

Did they offer the Ukrainians a way out, did they just storm it, or can anyone give more information on what happened?

There is many vids of guys talking directly to the officers to ask them to join the new crimean forces or leave quietly, some accepted some not, those still under siege today are probably on a short leash after the first stormings casualties and order to respond to fire with fire.

[Leshma]

visitors can't see pics , please register or login