Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Kafein]

Give Crimea to Genoese merchant families.

[CrazyCracka420]

I like where this thread is going

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[Kafein]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoZwWzYBBkc

Omg yolotrovsky such a coward, uses protection !

[Dark_Blade]

So, why isn't it a crime what Russia did? It's against the law as pointed out by a shitload of smart Professors and experts...

did I say that it isnt?
just I cant agree with the way how western worlds accepting the events in ukraine. if both sides are doing wrong - both are wrong even if some evil is worse than other evil. even if one of them deserves hard punishment - it doesnt forgives the another one evil.

also I cant understand how come that Crimea should be part as Ukraine. because its happened so historically? once and forever? lol. I am not saying that Crimea should be part of Russia but I think only crimean people can control the Crimea with full power because its THEIR land. not Kievan, not Moscow.
referendum said that Crimea wish to be on the russian side. I dont belive in that accurace in results but only blind person can say that Crimea prefer Kiev.
as I already said - every president and parlament elections Crimea shows that they prefer pro-eastern side.

haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love, spectators gonna spectate.

[Armpit_Sweat]

haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love, spectators gonna spectate.

I will keep spectating, thank you very much!

Posted twice, and it felt like this both times:

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[Leshma]

About population of Crimea. Crimean native population are Crimean Tatars. Crimea being populated/controlled by Russians during 3 centuries is just something that you took out of the ocean. Russians terrorized native population of Crimea during the whole time Russians were there. At some point (like 10 years before giving Crimea to Ukraine) USSR deported ALL Crimean Tatars to central Asia and Siberia. Russians were the majority in Crimea only after USSR appeared. Also as far as I counted, Crimea was Russian for approximately 170 years (in fact less, because these years include all the revolutions, wars and occupations).

And if we go even deeper in history we'll find out that Crimean Tatars were taking slaves from Russia and Ukraine and were delivering them to Ottoman Empire. There is no good or bad, just might makes right. For example, always thought that most Mercs are assholes but you guys were always popular because you were strong and respected clan. Same goes now for Grey Order and Druzhina. Good and evil are man made stuff to justify actions of either side in a conflict.

Because of all this shit, relations between Russia and EU is very poor and countries like mine will have to pick sides. Our export and gas import depends on Russia, but we also depend of EU for many things.

This is not even conflict between countries, this is NATO wanting supremacy.

[Xant]

I am not saying that Crimea should be part of Russia but I think only crimean people can control the Crimea with full power because its THEIR land. not Kievan, not Moscow

So where do you draw the line then? Should you be able to control your apartment with full power, forcing everyone else to treat it as if it were a country? What about a family that owned an estate, should they be able to control their own lands with full power? It is their land, after all. Or perhaps ten estates would be enough people and land? Or maybe a village? A town? A city? A municipality?

[Dark_Blade]

what about the whole ukraine then?
I just meant that local government should have more power than country government in each region. global country is needed to connect all the regions and for world politics. in my opinion its so.

[Mala]

...

also I cant understand how come that Crimea should be part as Ukraine. because its happened so historically? once and forever?...

Well personally, i have no problem that the crimean population has chosen to join the RF because they hope for a better future but i have a problem how it was done.

A better approach have would been if the crimean people had started some protests for more autonomy (even with some slighty pushes from Moscow) after the collapse of the ukrainian government.
if they had say no and had sent the police/army to put down the protest, then the crimeans had filled the victim role and the world had seen russian troops as protectors of the poor Crimea against the evil Ukraine.

Now it looks like big bad Russia bullies the little Ukraine, tells lies to the rest of the world (these are no russian troops xaxaxa) and wonders why everyone is pissed.

[Beauchamp]

all you need is to choose a team. i personally play for eu/usa because its the better option of the two (if it comes down to russia/usaeu) in all aspects.

or you may be lucky and be born in switzerland and you can fuck up with everybody and just get rich watching others fight.

[Beauchamp]

Well personally, i have no problem that the crimean population has chosen to join the RF because they hope for a better future but i have a problem how it was done.

A better approach have would been if the crimean people had started some protests for more autonomy (even with some slighty pushes from Moscow) after the collapse of the ukrainian government.
if they had say no and had sent the police/army to put down the protest, then the crimeans had filled the victim role and the world had seen russian troops as protectors of the poor Crimea against the evil Ukraine.

Now it looks like big bad Russia bullies the little Ukraine, tells lies to the rest of the world (these are no russian troops xaxaxa) and wonders why everyone is pissed.

+1

problem is russians are not able to do anything in a good way. the only thing they know is how to "conquer". kgb like/bolshevik/imperialistic/etc. manners die hard...

[DaveUKR]

did I say that it isnt?
just I cant agree with the way how western worlds accepting the events in ukraine. if both sides are doing wrong - both are wrong even if some evil is worse than other evil. even if one of them deserves hard punishment - it doesnt forgives the another one evil.

also I cant understand how come that Crimea should be part as Ukraine. because its happened so historically? once and forever? lol. I am not saying that Crimea should be part of Russia but I think only crimean people can control the Crimea with full power because its THEIR land. not Kievan, not Moscow.
referendum said that Crimea wish to be on the russian side. I dont belive in that accurace in results but only blind person can say that Crimea prefer Kiev.
as I already said - every president and parlament elections Crimea shows that they prefer pro-eastern side.

haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love, spectators gonna spectate.

If referendum is full of falsification how can you say that people didn't vote with the same result but for the opposite side? If referendum is falsificated then it should have no power, no matter how people WOULD vote anyway. And how can you make referendums that are not acknowledged by anyone besides a couple of countries? It's like I make a referendum with the question "Would you like to have 1 million bucks for each of you from the government?", I just made shitloads of copies where I asked my friends to sign, my buddy announced referendum successful with 96% votes for (those who voted against will achieve money too). I suggested to give 1 million bucks to governments of Bhutan, Malawi, Tuvalu and Madagascar to acknowledge it in case my referendum succeeds.  Yeah, majority of people would vote for getting money for nothing, but why should it matter?

I myself paid taxes from those Crimea had its budget, why didn't Crimeans asked all Ukrainians then? Why Putin didn't ask Russians if they want to pay taxes to donate Crimeans? Wouldn't be it democratic?

Also I have nothing against Crimeans. If they want to join Russia - it's their own will. But everyone is mad at Russia invading Ukraine, that's the point.

[Corwin]

According to this: http://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/why-did-russia-give-away-crimea-sixty-years-ago

Russia did not receive anything in return for Crimea. Apparently, it was Khrushchev's move in order to secure political support he needed within the Party.

And according to the BBC World Affairs Editor, there is no question about the will of Crimeans to go with Russia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26644082


Quote:

In modern times, Moscow has staged three major invasions: Hungary in November 1956 and Czechoslovakia in August 1968, when the Communist governments there began showing dangerously Western tendencies; and Afghanistan in December 1979, when the pro-Communist regime was on the point of collapse.

These were huge and brutal operations, involving large numbers of tanks, and sometimes great bloodshed.

The takeover of Crimea has been completely different. This was an infiltration, not an invasion. And unlike in Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan it was welcomed by a large proportion of the local population.

According to a well-known opponent of Mr Putin's, the vote in Crimea to join the Russian Federation was "a referendum under the Kalashnikov". But it wasn't. The outcome was what the vast majority of Russian-speakers in Crimea really wanted, and there was little need for Kalashnikovs in the streets.   


PS
Don't blame me, this is BBC.

[serr]

Fresh news, police arrested leader of nationalistic organization White Hammer, which is part of famous Right Sector for killing road inspectors, Dark Blade mentioned several pages before.

Confrontation between new government and nationalists incoming. Without Russia I would bet on government, but as it is I'm uncertain of results.

[SMEGMAR]

It's worst than that, not only was the holocaust a fake but the whole second world war never happened! It was all invented by the Zionist, alien trained lizard illuminati to undermine einstein's invasion of Russia that never happened because the Jews invented einstein as a Gollum to allow Russia to take over America through their secret tunnels!