Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Falka]

You mistake bravery with fanatism and lust for destruction. You confuse self-sacrifice that takes place on daily basis, by countless people of different professions, with violent monkey-rage outbursts, that destroy what was build by decades of hard work of millions! I ridicule this retarded propaganda of "freedom" so many of you are so full of.

Ssometimes new better world can be built only on the ashes of the old world, old order has to be destroyed before mankind will do next step in the future Sacrifice of one generation lets their descendants live in better world. Propaganda of freedom which you try to ridicule overthrown communism in 1989, without people who were willing to went out in the streets and destroy the Berlin wall there would still be cold war and USSR ruling over east europe. King Louis had to be killed on gillotine before Declaration of human rights could be written

Where are you from, Theeth, since you know so much about bravery and good of revolutions? Are you not from UK?..

And why does it matter according to you? I'm from POland and I think that my contrymen in the past knew quite a lot about bravery and how to do stupid rebellions and how to attack tanks with sabres

[Armpit_Sweat]

And why does it matter according to you? I'm from POland and I think that my contrymen in the past knew quite a lot about bravery and how to do stupid rebellions and how to attack tanks with sabres

If you were from Egypt, Syria or at least Ukraine, i would not argue the way i do. At least your would have known by now, if it was good or not for you, personally. But i just find it hard to argue with someone young from UK or Sweden - peaceful places, who only know of poverty from TV...

This Ukraine situation is upsetting me, and most of cRPG players are hardcore freedom fighters, not a bunch of nerdy adolescent dreamers as i previously thought. So i will go back to working my shitty job, and let you do the important stuff. If it wasn't for today's newspapers, i would not get emotional enough to post here

[Dark_Blade]

to Dave

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So you've basically just confessed that you hate Ukraine. You know, you can hate government, you can hate politics but hating your own country? How dare you asking for your opinion to get attention in the country which you hate then? That actually proves it even more that you're typical "bydlo" - low-educated guy who hates his own country and I wouldn't be even surprised if you can't connect 2 words in Ukrainian. Or am I wrong and just made a reckless announcement about you?

*facepalm*
lets start from psychology. this differentiating is a bit wrong but well... it works. basically  people got 2 views on things around them. their own, personal, egoistic point of view which is based on the accepting and filtring the information throught the feelings of person...

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so that what you like is good and that what you dont like is bad

and on  and global point of view, unsubjective point of view which is based on the objective analysys of facts.

tbh even the most objective person cannot be totally unsubjective because human is far not ideal made of nature.

now lets look at the simple humans life.
he is birthing. then he is getting basic moral education from his parents... and seems this point is the most important moment in humans life. at this point basic world understanding of human is being formed. what is good and what is evil. then the young person is starting to understand the world on his own... and he just found something what parents told pretty wrong at lots of points... he dont want live this way ... thats possible to have some conflicts with parents(awkward age). and this moment is also very imortant because the person is getting 2 choises - doing everything in complitelly different way than it was educated when it was a little child just because of kids annoiyng nature, to protest against something or take a look at everything and find with what exactly this teenager aree and with what he is not agree.
well first choise is pretty sad... because this person if not getting into some dangerouse crap but becomming a bit retarded because he will never more be agreed with anything what is not in his understanding and acceptence. he think that he is right apriory... sadly there is alot(wont say "most" because this lifes model is not accurate) of people who live this way.
but with time he becomming older and getting understanding that at most of things with which he wasnt agree as teenager was actually right... but he probably will not even notice it. he is acting as he want and in cases when he has to do something he dont want - he blame all the world\country\society in all his troubles... because he simply cannot understand that somewhere HE went wrong.

maybe this model is too radical but if turn on your imagination - you'll see, at least half of people are living this way.

well, Dave, you was asking about me. for me good is constructive actions, honesty and kindness.evil is destruction at any way of it, lie and egoism(includes every actions which can make profit for specific persons without any care about people from who he can get it at the "evil way").
maybe there is some kind of full retards(I dont think so) but basically people wants to be known as kind people, not as assholes.
with spectating at other people I found one sad thing, people cant be good because once they did wrong - and it makes them not good forever. but it doesnt says that people cant be just evil... even without understanding what their actions are causing people can do terrible things and find them right and good... but it doesnt makes them better.
in same time there is still concept of good and evil. and its unbreakeble concept because its ideals.
I will never reach my ideal but I am trying... but I am acting wrong so usually ... even against my own statements. if I found my choise resonable its doesnt make its better at any... and doesnt makes me better. I hate myself because I cannot be the person I want to be and I should be.

at this point I can say that the trouble is not just in me.  other people are causing so much things in my life... yeah I just found something to blame! yeah! society! but does the society makes me better than they are? there is alot of people who lives in their own way with their own understanding... but the trouble is their understanding can be different to me and to any other person. I found egoism as evil thing... but  some people dont even understand that they love themself too much.I found lie as an evil... but I know few persons who like to lie... maybe they think that makes them higher than other people but I dont think so.

well complite bullshit. something fine can be built only if people will think in the same way because its preventing the misunderstandings between the people.
thats why I dislike democracy. it makes people feel more individual... so makes more points of view... and as results more misunderstandings.

but seems so many people dont think so... and they can do whatever they want without any care to other people if they are chasing something important for themselfs.
thats what can we see in modern society. people deserves more hate than respect.

thats why I am saying so about Ukraine. from the start ... all the ukrainian territory is the territory of USSR(not United but Ukrainian)... and this "ukraine" is acting totally different compared to the soviet times. but than look, if you call the country as ukraine but without culture of soviet times - you should take the real territory of ukraine - UNR and ZUNR. and its fixing the trouble. but no, ukraine is like twice larger than it should be with the nation which never was "ukrainian"(Crimea and east).
so this country is fiction.
government is corrupted... every citizen think that he is the smartest... espcially when he isnt. you know what I mean, Dave. you see all this too...

so the right quote for my understanding of this country is

I love my country and hate the state

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I was pretty sure that its a phrase of Visockiy ... but I cant find the proof in internet o_O

and the fine quote for all this situation

All the evils of this world comes from thinking. When people who are not capable to think are doing it.

(click to show/hide)

A.Sapkowski, "Narrenturm"

// lol I am happy to be ukrainian because just from my birth I just supposed to know 2 languages and understand belarusian and alot in polish. if you want to know, I am student on second course of KNU (Kriviy Rih National University) on programm engineering specialisation 

to Zero

(click to show/hide)

mate, that very bad example because Mohyla is: 1) academy 2) one of the best academy in ukraine.
there was few of them... but they was made by nobles(especially ukrainian-polish intelegence) and it wasnt simple schools for everyone who wants to study there. civilisation came to our land only with ussr.

just look at the equipment. is it wonder that its harder to beat the riot police than lightly armed rebel? about 100? so 68-70(I remember it from 5 media channel which is actually on the side of protestors) is that ~ to 100?
this your "about" is the same as in previos phrase? there was no voting so all what can you say - you can say from your won expirience... well my expirience says that it was about 20% of people who I know. most dont care and about 20% are loving the russia.
dude nobody wants him as president apriory... but there was kinda no choise because the previos rulers are compromised themselfs too much ... and now they just raised up again.

I was watching the stream from maydan at that Tuesday... I swear, only complite retard should stay there more than 30min when someone from tribune says such nonsence, agreessive and hypocrisy.
I will forever keep in my memore the moment when the man from tribune was screaming the phrase "LOOK AT THEM! THEY ARE UNDER PSYCHOTROPIC INJECTIONS". exuse me, what?
personally I dont care about people who was beaten and killed there same as they wasnt care about future of millions other citizen of our land. maybe they think\though that they are right but it doesnt makes their actions better at any.

to everyone who think that he is right - welcome to ukraine, I really want you to live in the country which it will be. ah you probably dont want... this country is weaker than your motherland... so take care about your own life and dont talk a shit about things that you complitelly dont know and which are none of your business. at some point the blood of the people who was killed is on your hands too. without your support demonstrators shouldnt be as impudent as they was and it shouldnt went that far as it just went.

[AntiBlitz]

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/16644428-sarah-palin-taunts-critics-for-mocking-her-2008-ukraine-invasion-prediction

back in 2008 during the election campaign Sarah Palin was ridiculed by democrats for making this bold statement against Obama wanting to improve relations with Russia and essentially lifting a lot of the restrictions placed upon them over the Georgian invasion.  Now 6 years later, i lol, because she was right all this time.

[Falka]

and the fine quote for all this situation

All the evils of this world comes from thinking. When people who are not capable to think are doing it.

A.Sapkowski, "Narrenturm"

said by Zawisza the Black from Garbów, the Black Knight  I don't agree with almost everything what you say, but I have to appreciate your choice of lecture

[Dark_Blade]

Falka, as member of Grey Order - I know, its pointless to do anything for changing the political mind of polish citizen 

[Leshma]

And why does it matter according to you? I'm from POland and I think that my contrymen in the past knew quite a lot about bravery and how to do stupid rebellions and how to attack tanks with sabres

Now you sound like Panos, ancestors of my ancestors did that yadda yadda. Who cares, you werent there. Therefore you do not know how it happened exactly.

I just hope this will end without war. Everyone who wishes war to happen is an idiot or mean, evil human being. Ukraine is approached by two sides and both act "friendly", each in its own way. But the truth is, neither wants to help Ukraine. Just defending their geopolitical interests. EU wants to control Ukraine, because that means controlling part of oil and gas transport. Russia wants the same and to keep NATO out of Ukraine. Both EU and Russia are enemy of Ukraine atm, just like Yanukovich and those new guys posing as saviors of Ukraine. Nothing good will happen to people of Ukraine. Under those circumstances, avoiding war is like winning.

[Falka]

Now you sound like Panos, ancestors of my ancestors did that yadda yadda. Who cares, you werent there.

But I don't care either and I'm very far from being proud or whatever because of what my countryman did in the past, especially that I'm sure that if I were in their place I wouldn't do that. I said it just in response to Armpit's questions about nationality of Beaucheamp and Teeth.

EU wants to control Ukraine, because that means controlling part of oil and gas transport.

Dunno about whole EU, but poland is just afraid of russia and wants to keep them as far from our borders as possible, no one cares about gas transport cause almost all our gas we take from russia anyway.

[LordBerenger]

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Poor Russians...their hacking can't compete against the millions of CD keys.

[DaveUKR]

to Dave

(click to show/hide)

*facepalm*
lets start from psychology. this differentiating is a bit wrong but well... it works. basically  people got 2 views on things around them. their own, personal, egoistic point of view which is based on the accepting and filtring the information throught the feelings of person...

(click to show/hide)

so that what you like is good and that what you dont like is bad

and on  and global point of view, unsubjective point of view which is based on the objective analysys of facts.

tbh even the most objective person cannot be totally unsubjective because human is far not ideal made of nature.

now lets look at the simple humans life.
he is birthing. then he is getting basic moral education from his parents... and seems this point is the most important moment in humans life. at this point basic world understanding of human is being formed. what is good and what is evil. then the young person is starting to understand the world on his own... and he just found something what parents told pretty wrong at lots of points... he dont want live this way ... thats possible to have some conflicts with parents(awkward age). and this moment is also very imortant because the person is getting 2 choises - doing everything in complitelly different way than it was educated when it was a little child just because of kids annoiyng nature, to protest against something or take a look at everything and find with what exactly this teenager aree and with what he is not agree.
well first choise is pretty sad... because this person if not getting into some dangerouse crap but becomming a bit retarded because he will never more be agreed with anything what is not in his understanding and acceptence. he think that he is right apriory... sadly there is alot(wont say "most" because this lifes model is not accurate) of people who live this way.
but with time he becomming older and getting understanding that at most of things with which he wasnt agree as teenager was actually right... but he probably will not even notice it. he is acting as he want and in cases when he has to do something he dont want - he blame all the world\country\society in all his troubles... because he simply cannot understand that somewhere HE went wrong.

maybe this model is too radical but if turn on your imagination - you'll see, at least half of people are living this way.

well, Dave, you was asking about me. for me good is constructive actions, honesty and kindness.evil is destruction at any way of it, lie and egoism(includes every actions which can make profit for specific persons without any care about people from who he can get it at the "evil way").
maybe there is some kind of full retards(I dont think so) but basically people wants to be known as kind people, not as assholes.
with spectating at other people I found one sad thing, people cant be good because once they did wrong - and it makes them not good forever. but it doesnt says that people cant be just evil... even without understanding what their actions are causing people can do terrible things and find them right and good... but it doesnt makes them better.
in same time there is still concept of good and evil. and its unbreakeble concept because its ideals.
I will never reach my ideal but I am trying... but I am acting wrong so usually ... even against my own statements. if I found my choise resonable its doesnt make its better at any... and doesnt makes me better. I hate myself because I cannot be the person I want to be and I should be.

at this point I can say that the trouble is not just in me.  other people are causing so much things in my life... yeah I just found something to blame! yeah! society! but does the society makes me better than they are? there is alot of people who lives in their own way with their own understanding... but the trouble is their understanding can be different to me and to any other person. I found egoism as evil thing... but  some people dont even understand that they love themself too much.I found lie as an evil... but I know few persons who like to lie... maybe they think that makes them higher than other people but I dont think so.

well complite bullshit. something fine can be built only if people will think in the same way because its preventing the misunderstandings between the people.
thats why I dislike democracy. it makes people feel more individual... so makes more points of view... and as results more misunderstandings.

but seems so many people dont think so... and they can do whatever they want without any care to other people if they are chasing something important for themselfs.
thats what can we see in modern society. people deserves more hate than respect.

thats why I am saying so about Ukraine. from the start ... all the ukrainian territory is the territory of USSR(not United but Ukrainian)... and this "ukraine" is acting totally different compared to the soviet times. but than look, if you call the country as ukraine but without culture of soviet times - you should take the real territory of ukraine - UNR and ZUNR. and its fixing the trouble. but no, ukraine is like twice larger than it should be with the nation which never was "ukrainian"(Crimea and east).
so this country is fiction.
government is corrupted... every citizen think that he is the smartest... espcially when he isnt. you know what I mean, Dave. you see all this too...

so the right quote for my understanding of this country is

(click to show/hide)

I was pretty sure that its a phrase of Visockiy ... but I cant find the proof in internet o_O

and the fine quote for all this situation

(click to show/hide)

A.Sapkowski, "Narrenturm"

to Zero

(click to show/hide)

mate, that very bad example because Mohyla is: 1) academy 2) one of the best academy in ukraine.
there was few of them... but they was made by nobles(especially ukrainian-polish intelegence) and it wasnt simple schools for everyone who wants to study there. civilisation came to our land only with ussr.

just look at the equipment. is it wonder that its harder to beat the riot police than lightly armed rebel? about 100? so 68-70(I remember it from 5 media channel which is actually on the side of protestors) is that ~ to 100?
this your "about" is the same as in previos phrase? there was no voting so all what can you say - you can say from your won expirience... well my expirience says that it was about 20% of people who I know. most dont care and about 20% are loving the russia.
dude nobody wants him as president apriory... but there was kinda no choise because the previos rulers are compromised themselfs too much ... and now they just raised up again.

I was watching the stream from maydan at that Tuesday... I swear, only complite retard should stay there more than 30min when someone from tribune says such nonsence, agreessive and hypocrisy.
I will forever keep in my memore the moment when the man from tribune was screaming the phrase "LOOK AT THEM! THEY ARE UNDER PSYCHOTROPIC INJECTIONS". exuse me, what?
personally I dont care about people who was beaten and killed there same as they wasnt care about future of millions other citizen of our land. maybe they think\though that they are right but it doesnt makes their actions better at any.

to everyone who think that he is right - welcome to ukraine, I really want you to live in the country which it will be. ah you probably dont want... this country is weaker than your motherland... so take care about your own life and dont talk a shit about things that you complitelly dont know and which are none of your business. at some point the blood of the people who was killed is on your hands too. without your support demonstrators shouldnt be as impudent as they was and it shouldnt went that far as it just went.

Honestly, you should work on your texts. I've just wasted a bunch of time reading a completely useless unrelated stuff, but okay. It would be unfair if I didn't read it at least. To make it short: You live in Ukraine, you hate Ukraine, you hate democracy, you think Ukraine shouldn't exist in its current borders, UkrSSR stronk. Well... I'll try to make it short (though I'll fail and trust me I didn't even want to discuss it as there is no way to have a conversation with a person with such statements, you demand to respect your opinion but you don't make your opinion bypass simple logic before announcing it.)

1. About unrelated stuff and psychology of choices. I've stated here multiple times (I can't even count how many) that not everyone is happy with current government (including me, I personally dislike it), that there is no ideal choice at all: whatever you do now - people will be unhappy.
2. About democracy being bad. I strictly disagree, don't even want to discuss it. You would get to Gulag for your words.
3. About Ukraine being fiction. Following your logic: how can UNR (Ukrainian National Republic) that existed 3 (yes, three) years that declared independence from Russian Empire be more related to Ukraine than UkrSSR? With the same logic I can claim that Moscow should be a part of Ukraine as it got founded by lords of Kiev Rus, but I don't do it. Why? Because it would be extremely stupid. Current Ukrainian borders are ratified by the whole world (including Russia).
4. About Crimea not being Ukrainian. If it's not Ukrainian - it's definitely not Russian then. Crimea was Russian during 170 years (1783-1954) and was never Russian before and hopefully doesn't become in future.
5. About corruption in Ukraine. Yes, Ukraine was corrupted (99th place with previous president in 2006) in the past but it became corrupted even more with Yanukovich becoming probably the most (144th place in 2013, the highest corruption rating for Ukraine so far). You want to get rid of corruption and decide to become a part of guess what country? Tip: this country shares 127th place in 2013 corruption antirating with Pakistan, Nicaragua, Gambia, Lebanon, Mali, Comoros and Azerbaijan. No idea? Oh, it's Russian Federation, how unexpected.
6. About quote that you hate the government but love the country. That's just obvious hypocrisy. 5 minutes ago you confessed that you hate your country, also what should I say if you don't even accept Ukraine as a country calling it fiction?

[Kafein]

Teeth, Falka, you shouldn't forget that Armpit is older than a dinosaur by cRPG standards. Of course he values stability more than you do.

[Erasmas]

This whole thread is interesting cause it shows personal political preferences and how they depend on where each and every one of us is from.

We Poles live our history, we are immersed in it, we tend not to forget the past. And as much as I agree with DarkBlade - its pointless to do anything to change the political mind of Polish citizen - I do not think there is a large sentiment in Poland to reverse this past. Majority of people I know - at least these born in old commie times - are just happy that we lucky to live during the longest period without war in the history of Poland.  Because war always means devastation, death and losses. And that is why I personally do worry about events on Ukraine, aside from my personal political likes and dislikes.   

And let's make it straight - it has absolutely nothing to do with Greys. Greys are fighting for Elberl these days. It is just sad that vast majority of Ukrainian guys disappeared from TS. And I hope they will be back soon.

[BlindGuy]

Under those circumstances, avoiding war is like winning.

I can think of very few circumstances when avoiding war is not winning. War is horrible.

[Butan]

I can think of very few circumstances when avoiding war is not winning. War is horrible.

An unjust peace is better than a just war.

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Or for those that believe the contrary: a just war is better than an unjust peace 

[SugarHoe]

OMG AMERICA VS RUSSIA THIS IS JUST LIKE COD ALL OVER AGAIN.

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where are the predator missiles