Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Grytviken]

That's only partially true. Communism in many countries happened after WWII. Most people still living in those areas were poorly educated, malnourished, in very poor state generally. Those remnants of educated minority were accused as traitors which was not true in some cases but in many it was correct assumption. That didn't stop those countries to rise from the ashes very quickly and produce educated people who would run globally acclaimed universities in less than two decades. After those two decades of building the foundations communism started dying off.

In the end it was replaced by the worst kind of crony capitalism where the cooperative effort of people through decades ended in hands of few thieves and shady group of people in general. That's what you have in Russia today, early capitalism fully controlled by group of so called oligarchs, former criminals or government spies, killers and other scum of the Earth. Just like mold of Soviet communism has been applied to other countries of the eastern block, in same way every post communist country through so called transition ended with similar brand of corrupted capitalism.

Communism was always corrupt from the start and exploited the struggle of the working man when in reality it punished them. The communists stole from Ukrainian farmers and murdered them based on how many acres of farmland they worked. While Poland and Baltic states got their independence Ukraine could not and was punished heavily in the interwar period which is why some Ukrainians look to people like Petilura as their national heroes because he fought for an independent Ukraine.

The 2nd Polish Republic was a beautiful thing despite the economic difficulties of a customs war Germany imposed and having to rebuild after the Russians pillaged everything on their way out. Many universities opened and literacy rates spiked. This was the core foundation of an educated Republic of Slavs the communists always seek'd to undermine and destroy and they finally got their chance when they helped the chocolate chip cookies in WW2.

[Tibes]

Its funny how with the same facts one can end up with total opposite conclusion 
Yes Russia isnt prospering, its clinging for life, these are just facts. But why is it? The economic isolationism of Russia is a self-inflicted politics that originates from Putin's idea of how to conduct his country?
The fight over gas/oil and global prices, the non-inclusion of trade markets, the prefered trade deals which are almost embargoes today due to the diplomatic pressure over Crimea and Syria, the economic sanctions; are they self-inflicted?

Russia is a capitalist country, it is perfectly capable of being included in the global market, but it is forbidden to so it must try to survive with the rest of rising powers + the second/third world countries as a matter of consequence. Its all part of an economical war that originate from the WW2, with the first cold war, then the de-escalation after USSR dissolution and the second cold war we have today (which could also include China and USA soon over south china conflicts, maybe China and Russia are going to be BFF before any solution appears ).

They might be dreaming that other countries are going to have their economies even more fucked than theirs, but thats the same thing on the other side m8: do you really believe that the US and the EU arent losing money over this? Every countries are inter-connected, so this economical war basically means that both are trying to shoot off their foot in the hope that it means the other's heart is crushed. To believe that Russia is the only one to want so, that it has created this atmosphere on purpose and wants to maintain this status quo is pure madness because they are losing more than the other side. Next we are going to hear that of course its that way because Putin himself is pure madness I guess, which can justify any political reasoning 


...

Im gonna stop you right there. Its definately not a capitalist country and its not forbidden to join anything. Russia has had access to the global market eversince it got built. But they just dont produce anything that the 3rd world doesnt for cheaper cost. And that has always kinda grinded their gears and they have thrown a hissyfit. Russian trademark is the absolute shit. Why do you think the Baltic has to put up extra effort for the "we are not russians" message before selling anyone anything?  And it has nothing to do with EU or USA. Ask any Western businessman who ever invested anything in Russia and pulled out furiously. The russians skin them alive there. Not only that the state legimately fucks every business thats foreign with a massive hammer and sickle straight in the asshole. The ruskies lose more than the other side because they have no idea how the global market works and nobody fucks foreign investors more than Russia. And its all because of paranoia and that quite serius russian mentality. Their fear or money going out is so severe that they wont allow any movement of it inside their own country. Again, mybe kinda justified, but no suprise they are poor if applying methods like that. I mean common. Think about it. "This buisness is a US buisness, lets just remove it". That kind of nonsense harassment is not pulled anywhere in the West.

And Putin imo has nothing to do with it. Putin is everything that in my opinion represents the will of the Russian people. Strong and ruthless. Everything he does is probably everything every decent russian leader that listens to its people would do. But yeah, I fully believe that the economic shithole that is in Russia is self-inflicted. The EU isnt at all so hateful of Russia. Quite the opposite. But every Western businessman that ever wanted to do buisness with russians, got fucked by Kremlin 10 years ago and lost a lot of money. So yeah. No money is going to move in there any time soon. As a foreign buisness even if you get past the local buisnessmen who legimately use "baseballbat to the kneecap" tactics, eventually you got to deal with Kremlin itself.

And China and Russia are never going to be BFFs. Look at the worldmap and you will see why. Russia, despite hiding these facts, has had quite heavy conflicts with China on its Eastern side. If anyone has any reason at all to do anything to Russia its most definatly China. Its just running out of room and Russia has plenty of it. What the fuck is US or EU gonna do with it? Russia isnt even an economical threat to anyone in the West. The Western economy is crumbling on its own and Russia is just some random drunk slav in adidas yelling random insults on the street to it while the West is shooting itself in the foot.

[Leshma]

Communism was always corrupt from the start and exploited the struggle of the working man when in reality it punished them. The communists stole from Ukrainian farmers and murdered them based on how many acres of farmland they worked. While Poland and Baltic states got their independence Ukraine could not and was punished heavily in the interwar period which is why some Ukrainians look to people like Petilura as their national heroes because he fought for an independent Ukraine.

The 2nd Polish Republic was a beautiful thing despite the economic difficulties of a customs war Germany imposed and having to rebuild after the Russians pillaged everything on their way out. Many universities opened and literacy rates spiked. This was the core foundation of an educated Republic of Slavs the communists always seek'd to undermine and destroy and they finally got their chance when they helped the chocolate chip cookies in WW2.

Not that I disagree but you need to clarify who you refer to when you say communism? You want to say that people who worked for free on common goal rebuilding those countries, just like they did in post war Germany, are rotten? They were mostly following the ideal you know. I agree that politicians were rotten, but are you really making the claim that isn't the case in capitalism?

Communism should be nation in its entirety, working towards a common goal. In theory. I don't see how is that rotten. But that just isn't possible due to human nature, because if you remove central authority someone else, much smaller, will think it is time for him to become authority. Which is exactly what happened before Stalin started ruling with iron fist. You can't blame the system because humans are assholes in general. Capitalism is built on that very fact and all gains it makes are based on human greed.

About Slav states before 20th century, they weren't great. People in monarchy were little better than slaves. They had free will but all their possessions were first and foremost owned by the ruling class: monarch, his immediate family and rich folks close to them. Communist taken that from them and forced them to share everything with everyone (in theory) and since villagers were always piss poor they cherished that little they had and seen communism as evil. But those same communists brought them to cities, built apartments for them, they stopped being poor villagers and got a chance to make something for themselves and their children. Same things Europe is doing for muslim youth and as you can see many of them aren't exactly grateful.

The 2nd Polish Republic was a beautiful thing

Maybe, but it was extremely fragile. Kinda like EU is atm. Sadly, strong military is necessity in human societies.

[Tibes]

Communism should be nation in its entirety, working towards a common goal. In theory. I don't see how is that rotten. But that just isn't possible due to human nature, because if you remove central authority someone else, much smaller, will think it is time for him to become authority. Which is exactly what happened before Stalin started ruling with iron fist. You can't blame the system because humans are assholes in general. Capitalism is built on that very fact and all gains it makes are based on human greed.

People are different aswell. With different needs. You make capitalism sound so evil. Greed? Yeah, but not only. Its built also on a fact that its in a societies best interest to fill the majority of its peoples needs. Quite many buisnesses have also risen up with individuals who felt the urge to buy something, couldnt get it, researched it, started making or importing it themselves and providing it to the rest. Controlled economy doesnt work because it sees fit to only fill a persons basic need and nothing else.

[Leshma]

So you're advocate of self regulating market, is that right?

My views are radically different. For example I think that our main priority atm should be leaving this rock while we have the chance. That goes above specific needs and individual freedom. Used to be for personal freedom but as lately I tend to care about humanity and its future. Environmental issues should come before our personal quirks. Why? Because things are going in wrong direction and if we keep it this way it won't matter what we did in the past. Because we'll cease to exist.

Model of society that gets my approval is the one that will help us overcome this crisis we as a specie have at hand, but we ignore it. First secure the future, then think about exotic needs of every asshole that gets popped up from female vagina.

In case we're not planning to make situation better at least we should not make it worse. Capitalism isn't evil because it exploits human flaws, it is evil because it is a threat for human survival.

[Thomek]

Stalinist environmentalist spotted.

[Tibes]

So you're advocate of self regulating market, is that right?

My views are radically different. For example I think that our main priority atm should be leaving this rock while we have the chance. That goes above specific needs and individual freedom. Used to be for personal freedom but as lately I tend to care about humanity and its future. Environmental issues should come before our personal quirks. Why? Because things are going in wrong direction and if we keep it this way it won't matter what we did in the past. Because we'll cease to exist.

Model of society that gets my approval is the one that will help us overcome this crisis we as a specie have at hand, but we ignore it. First secure the future, then think about exotic needs of every asshole that gets popped up from female vagina.

In case we're not planning to make situation better at least we should not make it worse. Capitalism isn't evil because it exploits human flaws, it is evil because it is a threat for human survival.

So do I, in some form. But I know I am a weak coward. When it comes down to it, it will be elitism. But the elite will be the rocketscientists and physicists, in your scenarios case. Everyone else is forced to crawl in the dirt. I would  basically be forfeiting my entire life for the greater good. And I know damn well I will break if I will be forced to do so. Do you think you can survive as the most hopelessly bottom layer of a society?

[Grytviken]

My views are radically different. For example I think that our main priority atm should be leaving this rock while we have the chance. That goes above specific needs and individual freedom. Used to be for personal freedom but as lately I tend to care about humanity and its future. Environmental issues should come before our personal quirks. Why? Because things are going in wrong direction and if we keep it this way it won't matter what we did in the past. Because we'll cease to exist.

Model of society that gets my approval is the one that will help us overcome this crisis we as a specie have at hand, but we ignore it. First secure the future, then think about exotic needs of every asshole that gets popped up from female vagina.

In case we're not planning to make situation better at least we should not make it worse. Capitalism isn't evil because it exploits human flaws, it is evil because it is a threat for human survival.

Even if humanity survives an apocalyptic disaster like nuclear fallout or China blowing a hole in the atmosphere by burning astronomical amounts of unfiltered plastic it's already too late for western civilization, the never ending barrage of institutionalized SJW ideology will eventually turn western males into electronic smoking transgender freaks of nature which will lead to natural extinction, our fate is sealed.

Slavs and other random people (Hungarians, Finns, Siberians etc.) will have to rebuild civilization after the US goes down slaying the communist hydra of satan (Russia, China and best Korea) whether that's in space or on earth, nature is very resilient so I think Earth would eventually recover.

[Leshma]

Stalinist environmentalist spotted.

Environmental issues are the only real issues we have. Everything else is superficial and can become non issue just by changing the way of thinking. Some people think that is hard, but our greatest advantage is adaptability. However when you poison your environment, fixing it isn't that simple.

[Vovka]

If someone have free time ^^ http://sputniknews.com/military/20160810/1044127977/fsb-terrorism-crimea-ukraine.html

By the way these days in Ukraine goes trial. Volunteers Battalion "Tornado" are accused of rape, torture, murder, stealing cars, etc. those very same guys "are not chocolate chip cookies," and "not criminals" .  I gave links to them here early, so time will tell... There is a video with the testimony of the survivors from the courtroom and investigative experiments video where they tell everything, unfortunately only in Russian

(click to show/hide)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3qK8AIaptI

[LordBerenger]

#PutinSaveUkraine
#PutinBless
#PutinWillCrushTheNa.zis


Putin 1 - Na.zis 0

[Vovka]

#PutinSaveUkraine
#PutinBless
#PutinWillCrushTheNa.zis


Putin 1 - Na.zis 0

Putin >>>>> Obama

[Butan]

Putin >>>>> Obama

Obama is not gonna stay much longer, due to the fact that the USA has a system that doesnt allow a president to stay in control for decades 

[Butan]

Such excuses that they are the victims of an economical war, and that's why they have their situation is dangerous as fuck. The sanctions are a recent thing and a direct response to Ukraine crisis.

The sanctions are a recent thing and represent one episode of a continuous story: the hostility/fear of Russia which directly influence commercial deals between the nations and its peoples is a 1950's thing that has been fueled non-stop since, with highs and lows of course...
I add, fueled by facts and/or fantaisies. I believe you guys up there in the Baltics or in the vincinity have some knowledge and credibility, I read you with interest, I do not ignore everything you say, I just doubt.

(click to show/hide)

I hope doubting is not dangerous as fuck and I'm at risk here? 

[Vovka]

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/eu-imposes-anti-dumping-fees-on-russian-major-steel-producers-54859

the same thing will happen with any other shit, except for petroleum and timber so no reason to even try