Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Butan]

The endgoal will always be to eliminate the Baltics relation with the rest of the West.

I agree that both US and Russia are fighting under the table to win countries in their own sphere of influence, in a back and forth that mostly benefited NATO in the last decades; and the Baltics could fell prey to this too, but if it happens it could be a mostly bloodless election/revolution that has apparent legality (like with Ukraine) and a change of political heads as you said.

If you truely believe that its stupid to think "US politics are tainted, RF is not", isnt the contrary equally brainless? ("RF politics are tainted, US is not)
So if there is a political change that isnt led by a military exterior intervention, you should do like pro-Russian Ukrainians and accept your destiny, continue living under people you hate.

You gotta accept that everyone just as paranoid as the other, saying that Russia are the masters paranoid that will aggressively attack others because of that while ignoring the rest is strange.
US-Nato paranoia driven strategical enclosing of Russia, diplomatical cessation, international dominance used to put economical sanctions and building up of tension is not proof? Of course not, its a legit counter-measure to Russia aggressive agenda! 
Russia on the other hand has done what with its paranoia driven warmongering politics? Support pro-russian political parties, do covert stuff that noone can accurately depict, some aggressive military manoeuvering... and this everyone do.
Russia is clearly losing the global war atm, it can only feel good with Crimea but thats a pretty cheap victory. It cannot maintain a strong standing army like the US and can only count on nukes to deter a possible war with NATO, and even this is being jeopardized by anti-missile being put right at their doorstep, and noone gives a shit because Russia cant pull a "Cuba crisis" like the US did anymore.

[Butan]

Sorry for DP, I hate late edit more^^

I'm not excusing the chocolate chip cookies, but you need to have two thoughts in the head: One is that it's the same in Russia. Another is that Ukraine is a nation at war, desperately scrambling for national identity and heroes. If you compare the two countries and their nationalism, it looks pretty similar in every way except for the symbols..

I agree with your post which understands how things gets to where we are. History is understanding that and I am a very curious history student, so props to you to try and understand all this and help me with it.
You seem pretty much on point. Maybe except the fact that Ukraine is not really "at war", even though it is certainly an atmosphere that could be artificially maintained by the new political power to keep its people in check. There is only low-intensity skirmishes in the deepest corner of Ukraine, so truth be told, it doesnt really naturally explain to go full banderist retard 

This is a huge fail for two reasons: one, it fucking stinks even if you dont understand Ukraine's complex history at all; two, Russia's anti-New Ukraine propaganda is 90% fueled with Bandera/nazis in mind, and now it is impossible to refute that they are right to believe so.


You gotta also think about the fact that its natural to believe that, since Bandera and far-right BS is real back there, there is a chance the rest of the "rumors" are true.
I dont think you're trying to whitewash this Thomek even though it can seem so, but this is clearly a Russia political win and a European fail... We are going to nurture a fucking shitshow in the EU and soon NATO, yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay 

[Thomek]

I agree that both US and Russia are fighting under the table to win countries in their own sphere of influence, in a back and forth that mostly benefited NATO in the last decades; and the Baltics could fell prey to this too, but if it happens it could be a mostly bloodless election/revolution that has apparent legality (like with Ukraine) and a change of political heads as you said.

If u've ever been to the Baltics, it's more like please please please take us away from Russia and protect us! Remember they know what they are talking about..

You gotta also think about the fact that its natural to believe that, since Bandera and far-right BS is real back there, there is a chance the rest of the "rumors" are true.

The most extreme guys didn't get many votes in the election. RF propaganda is saying they are all chocolate chip cookies, because they need to convince the average russian that Ukraine is now the enemy. I think they would anyway shamelessly say anything plausible in their own twisted world view. MH17 was a great example of how the spin was at its most ridiculous.

And Ukraine is at war. Just a little flame that RF can turn up whenever they feel like, as they have done in the past.

[Tibes]

I agree that both US and Russia are fighting under the table to win countries in their own sphere of influence, in a back and forth that mostly benefited NATO in the last decades; and the Baltics could fell prey to this too, but if it happens it could be a mostly bloodless election/revolution that has apparent legality (like with Ukraine) and a change of political heads as you said.

If you truely believe that its stupid to think "US politics are tainted, RF is not", isnt the contrary equally brainless? ("RF politics are tainted, US is not)
So if there is a political change that isnt led by a military exterior intervention, you should do like pro-Russian Ukrainians and accept your destiny, continue living under people you hate.

You gotta accept that everyone just as paranoid as the other, saying that Russia are the masters paranoid that will aggressively attack others because of that while ignoring the rest is strange.
US-Nato paranoia driven strategical enclosing of Russia, diplomatical cessation, international dominance used to put economical sanctions and building up of tension is not proof? Of course not, its a legit counter-measure to Russia aggressive agenda! 
Russia on the other hand has done what with its paranoia driven warmongering politics? Support pro-russian political parties, do covert stuff that noone can accurately depict, some aggressive military manoeuvering... and this everyone do.
Russia is clearly losing the global war atm, it can only feel good with Crimea but thats a pretty cheap victory. It cannot maintain a strong standing army like the US and can only count on nukes to deter a possible war with NATO, and even this is being jeopardized by anti-missile being put right at their doorstep, and noone gives a shit because Russia cant pull a "Cuba crisis" like the US did anymore.

Exactly. Russia is losing. Thats why Russia is extremely paranoid and always feels the obligation to make aggressive moves. What Russia tries to achieve with its paranoia driven warmongering politics is distance the Eastern part of Europe from the rest. Being a diehard ally or puppetstate of Russia is basically like it locking you in a tiny room. US-NATO is technically shit politics too, but it never does that, it isnt that desperately paranoid. Not only that, last I checked the US isnt forcing us to study english over our own languages.

The West is where the money is at. Majority of the economy and trade has become global. In Russia however it hasnt. It is incredibly scared to go global and all of its allies and puppets fear it too. The Baltic is doing significantly better than majority of Russia because, atleast afaik, it has adapted to the global economy rather well. Being part of Russia means that we all go back to swimming in dirtpoverty again with the rest of the federation. Russias paranoia over the US and the Global market is kinda the reason why it is the losing side and will most likely always be the losing side. Its fears might be justified, but that doesn't change the fact that under its wing nobody prospers in any way. You can pretty much hear that in the politicians speeches there. Nobody there expects Russia to prosper anymore. They expect that everyone elses economies will collapse to their level. They have been dreaming of that eversince the end of WW2 and they havent stopped since. 

[Grytviken]

Alot of slavs are still reminiscent of the glory days of the soviet union where they would wait in line 5 hours for a slice of bread and then get their whole family deported to Gulag for taking an extra scoop of potato. I laugh when I see stupid Polaks who changed their last name because they are ashamed of being Polish, they are just as bad as the ones who pretend to be chocolate chip cookies or reminisce of the communist days when life was simple because they live on stolen land.

[Paul]

Staple food was heavily subventioned (a least in the GDR) to a point that farmers fed buns to pigs because that was cheaper than actual animal feed. Standing in line for bread sounds unlikely to me.

[Falka]

Alot of slavs are still reminiscent of the glory days of the soviet union where they would wait in line 5 hours for a slice of bread and then get their whole family deported to Gulag for taking an extra scoop of potato.

Meat - yes, bread & potato - nope.

[Tibes]

Wasnt really that bad in Estonian side of USSR either. It was just really, really bizarre and extremely dysfunctional. Money was worthless, everyone hauled stuff because everyone needed stuff. Getting clothes that would actually fit you required some serius legwork. Fish was rare thou.

[Leshma]

Alot of slavs are still reminiscent of the glory days of the soviet union where they would wait in line 5 hours for a slice of bread and then get their whole family deported to Gulag for taking an extra scoop of potato.

Implying that changed much... latest reports on piracy, world number one is Latvia (gratz) with over 45% of population visiting sites which promote piracy. First ten places are held by European countries. Some of them being Serbia (over 20% of population enjoying piracy), Bulgaria, Greece, Croatia, Spain etc.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


https://torrentfreak.com/europe-has-the-highest-online-piracy-rates-by-far-160801/

Vietnam used to be communist country (maybe still is, dunno) but so little pirates. Keep blaming communism and not mentality.

Edit: Just checked, Vietnam still red. Just like Cuba. Their living conditions are similar. Not much dollaritos but that doesn't stop them to be solid countries. No golden iPhones, but no unemployment. No McDonalds, but high life expectancy. No designer clothes, but ton of nice places to visit. Unlike Russia, Serbia, Latvia and other shitty post communist colonies.

In ten years I plan to earn a bit of money from software development, save it and move permanently to Fidel's Cuba. Sell PC, never buy TV and live in paradise like old Ernesto did. Expensive option is Buenos Aires. Those are my goals in life, not these NATO shitholes. You can exterminate yourselves and muslims all you like, idgaf.

[Grytviken]

Keep blaming communism and not mentality.

All those goodies were stolen off the back of hard workers and farmers whether it was 50+ years ago or not doesn't matter, ofc I blame communism because they always wipe out the educated of any nation so they can exploit the workers for the "good of all". 

[Paul]

It's funny because you actually believe in what you write. I don't think even Smooth goes that far. Operating Thetan tier stuff.

[Grytviken]

They Slaughtered Ukraine’s Jews and Now You Want To Name Streets After Them?

 Bolsheviks killed millions of Ukrainians that are long forgotten and many Jews supported the Bolsheviks in Ukraine and Poland during the Ukrainian Polish and Soviet 1917-1921 wars, pretty savage warcrime revenge the Ukrainians took on everyone during the chaos of WW2 because none was on their side, but Lenin and his cronies did far worse to them and he's still celebrated everywhere.

[Butan]

Its fears might be justified, but that doesn't change the fact that under its wing nobody prospers in any way. You can pretty much hear that in the politicians speeches there. Nobody there expects Russia to prosper anymore. They expect that everyone elses economies will collapse to their level. They have been dreaming of that eversince the end of WW2 and they havent stopped since. 

Its funny how with the same facts one can end up with total opposite conclusion 
Yes Russia isnt prospering, its clinging for life, these are just facts. But why is it? The economic isolationism of Russia is a self-inflicted politics that originates from Putin's idea of how to conduct his country?
The fight over gas/oil and global prices, the non-inclusion of trade markets, the prefered trade deals which are almost embargoes today due to the diplomatic pressure over Crimea and Syria, the economic sanctions; are they self-inflicted?

Russia is a capitalist country, it is perfectly capable of being included in the global market, but it is forbidden to so it must try to survive with the rest of rising powers + the second/third world countries as a matter of consequence. Its all part of an economical war that originate from the WW2, with the first cold war, then the de-escalation after USSR dissolution and the second cold war we have today (which could also include China and USA soon over south china conflicts, maybe China and Russia are going to be BFF before any solution appears ).

They might be dreaming that other countries are going to have their economies even more fucked than theirs, but thats the same thing on the other side m8: do you really believe that the US and the EU arent losing money over this? Every countries are inter-connected, so this economical war basically means that both are trying to shoot off their foot in the hope that it means the other's heart is crushed. To believe that Russia is the only one to want so, that it has created this atmosphere on purpose and wants to maintain this status quo is pure madness because they are losing more than the other side. Next we are going to hear that of course its that way because Putin himself is pure madness I guess, which can justify any political reasoning 

Taking a guess here but, I'm almost sure that all Putin wants is keep Crimea as a "punishment" for the end of the historical neutrality of Ukraine (not saying its right, this is just a game remember?), be recognised internationally and then support to separatist movement in Ukraine will strangely end ( ), sanctions to be lift up and more deals to be made for capitalism to profit everyone, and a coordinated effort in the war with ISIS to respect each and everyone's allies or make/remove some.
I see no way of it happening because that sounds like pure and utter madness to 100% of the cold war bred politicians and still a good part of the media which has been feeding hate toward Russia in a largely uninterrupted fashion. So might as well prepare for a WW3 or just enjoy seeing Russia getting fucked harder than ourselves I guess? Or pray for Trump to deal some new cards 

And Ukraine is at war. Just a little flame that RF can turn up whenever they feel like, as they have done in the past.

You are right that they fear a real war and can easily justify it. What I said is that these skirmishes with pro-Russians are easily equaled with a state of war, which can be used as a political tool to further justify extreme actions and positioning, all fueled by war and fear of war.

[Leshma]

All those goodies were stolen off the back of hard workers and farmers whether it was 50+ years ago or not doesn't matter, ofc I blame communism because they always wipe out the educated of any nation so they can exploit the workers for the "good of all".

That's only partially true. Communism in many countries happened after WWII. Most people still living in those areas were poorly educated, malnourished, in very poor state generally. Those remnants of educated minority were accused as traitors which was not true in some cases but in many it was correct assumption. That didn't stop those countries to rise from the ashes very quickly and produce educated people who would run globally acclaimed universities in less than two decades. After those two decades of building the foundations communism started dying off.

In the end it was replaced by the worst kind of crony capitalism where the cooperative effort of people through decades ended in hands of few thieves and shady group of people in general. That's what you have in Russia today, early capitalism fully controlled by group of so called oligarchs, former criminals or government spies, killers and other scum of the Earth. Just like mold of Soviet communism has been applied to other countries of the eastern block, in same way every post communist country through so called transition ended with similar brand of corrupted capitalism.

[Thomek]

Russia is a capitalist country, it is perfectly capable of being included in the global market, but it is forbidden to so it must try to survive with the rest of rising powers + the second/third world countries as a matter of consequence. Its all part of an economical war that originate from the WW2, with the first cold war, then the de-escalation after USSR dissolution and the second cold war we have today (which could also include China and USA soon over south china conflicts, maybe China and Russia are going to be BFF before any solution appears ).

No it is not. I suggest you go there and see. There's practically nothing Russia produces, except raw materials and weapons developed during Soviet times that the rest of the world wants. Such excuses that they are the victims of an economical war, and that's why they have their situation is dangerous as fuck. The sanctions are a recent thing and a direct response to Ukraine crisis.

On paper it should be prospering and growing fast: 140 million people, incomparably vast resources. Decent education levels and little inner turmoil, with a lot of unity.

Two weeks in Russia for me, was enough to see glaring signs of why it's not so. Believe me when I say that having strong vertical structures in society. Where the powerful wield and will use any power they have to ruin your life. It's a system that produces and reproduces lies, corruption, scheming, to the point it becomes a part of everyday life, and a necessity to survive. The people that bubble to the top in such a system are the most scheming lying psychopaths imaginable. For a "good" person in such a society, the best you can do is try to stay invisible, and not come up with any good ideas, not do anything they can hang you for, for whatever reason they invent.

I don't blame the average Russian, I really don't. I blame the system that is geared and oiled for this abuse, producing people, leaders and mentalities that carry this system on.

And now you think that the west is also a bit like this. Maybe yes, it's not perfect. But our problems are NOTHING compared to what they experience there. Seriously, if you are a Russian patriot, if you love Russia, standing by in silence watching this horror not getting fixed is the worst you can do.

It sounds like you have friends or family in Russia. Take a moment to think about their probably absurd problems, their struggles to get relatively simple things done, their stories of obscene power abuse. This is the reason they are backwards, that's there is little change or development, that it is not a dynamic society.