Meanwhile in Ukraine

[DonNicko]

Tatars in tatarstan are NOT majority according to census http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatarstan#cite_note-2010Census-9. So yeah, I'm stupid Biggest ethnic group? Yes. Majority? No.

Are leaders of Tatarstan elected in proper elections or are they set by kremlin?

"Everyone and their grandma" is a figure of speech, which illustrates the scope of neighboring countries trying to move further away from russia. Shall I help you?
Finland - old time neutrals suddenly started investigating closer ties to NATO.
Baltics, Poland - well... fall of CCCP and joining EU/NATO asap was more than clear enough I hope?
Georgia - fucked by russia, signed association agreement with EU.
Moldova - see above.
Ukraine  -see 2 lines above.
Remainder of vyshegrad - already away from russia and happy (interesting situation is with Hungary, but its a separate topic, they are not leaving NATO/EU currently AFAIK).
Exceptions? Belarus and Kazachstan. Both dictatorships, both dictators - for now - have the support of putler.
So yeah, I'm stupid and all these facts mean nothing.

Can't be brief, too much stupidity around... You know ... http://xkcd.com/386/ 

Dictatorship? lol, again you speak bullshit and what you heard from your propoganda, have you been in this countries, lol, then go and ask people what they think. Showed again your stupidness. Also Armenia, Azerbaijan, not USSR Mongolia and China, even Georgia without Saakashvili(USA puppet, who if he will return to Gergia will be put in jail for a long time) is in good relation with Russia now.
About Tatarstan, yes it is from Kremlin but not Moscow one, but Kazan.
Now show me your stupidness again, what is the difference between biggest ethnic group and majority group?

[DonNicko]

Just a joke:
Gathered once on a Maidan
- ambassadors of the USA, France, Spain, Germany, Denmark;
- the Assistant US Secretary of State - Victoria Nuland;
- the American senators - Chris Murphy and John McCain;
- the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Germany - Guido Westerwelle;
- the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Holland - Frans Timmermans;
- the High Representative of the European Union for foreign affairs and a security policy - Catherine Ashton;
- the former president of Georgia - Mikheil Saakashvili;
- the europarliamentarian - Jacek Protasiewicz;
- Minister of Foreign Affairs LiNOS Linkyavichyus and speaker of the Seimas of Lithuania Loreta Grauzhinene;
- the former prime minister of Poland - Jaroslaw Kaczynski;
- senator of the Czech Republic - Yaromir Shtetina
and accused Russia of intervention in internal affairs of Ukraine

[Thomek]

Well at least they are not polonium poisoning the president or sending thousands of troops.. Annexing a third of the country etc etc..

[Molly]

Just a joke:
Gathered once on a Maidan
- ambassadors of the USA, France, Spain, Germany, Denmark;
- the Assistant US Secretary of State - Victoria Nuland;
- the American senators - Chris Murphy and John McCain;
- the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Germany - Guido Westerwelle;
- the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Holland - Frans Timmermans;
- the High Representative of the European Union for foreign affairs and a security policy - Catherine Ashton;
- the former president of Georgia - Mikheil Saakashvili;
- the europarliamentarian - Jacek Protasiewicz;
- Minister of Foreign Affairs LiNOS Linkyavichyus and speaker of the Seimas of Lithuania Loreta Grauzhinene;
- the former prime minister of Poland - Jaroslaw Kaczynski;
- senator of the Czech Republic - Yaromir Shtetina
and accused Russia of intervention in internal affairs of Ukraine

...and none of them brought a military invading force with them. Nor ripped a part of the country off.

[DonNicko]

...and none of them brought a military invading force with them. Nor ripped a part of the country off.

Yes, just gave some billions of dollars)

[Mala]

and do not forget the cookies.

[Butan]

Years old rumors of political poisoning, defending against silly Georgia blitzkrieg 6 years ago, repressing insurgency in their own territory, supporting a pro-Russian rebellion today.
Thats about all you can blame on Russia since USSR fell. And thats about all we hear whenever someone say, "hey see US/EU interests in Ukraine? Might mean something!", but since Russia has been/is bad then lets just say nothing is happening on the other side 

A bit too easy...
I was blamed for trying to compare Russia's doing to US/EU influence in the last twenties and always got called for it. But the opposite is okay even though the proportion doesnt fit?

[Kuujis]

Dictatorship? lol, again you speak bullshit and what you heard from your propoganda, have you been in this countries, lol, then go and ask people what they think. Showed again your stupidness. Also Armenia, Azerbaijan, not USSR Mongolia and China, even Georgia without Saakashvili(USA puppet, who if he will return to Gergia will be put in jail for a long time) is in good relation with Russia now.
About Tatarstan, yes it is from Kremlin but not Moscow one, but Kazan.
Now show me your stupidness again, what is the difference between biggest ethnic group and majority group?

Oh yeah, I've been to Belorussia, had some visitors from there, colleagues working there... They have this joke "We have no problems according to our media! No money or work either..."
Armenia - the same one, which has no borders with russia?
Georgia, the same one, which eagerly signed association treaty with EU as soon as it could, after russia fucking it up in the ass with artificial separatists? The same one, where you said something about "US supported genocide" and then failed to provide ANY proof of that? I believe they are AS friendly to russia as Ukraine is currently. Pun intended.
Azerbaijan, Mongolia - fair enough, no major conflicts I guess, missed those I actually didn't intend to leave EU theater of actions, but whatever.
China - the same one, which screwed russia in the recent gas deal and decided not to pay the advance cash, because there is no need to?

Good relations all around! Riiiiight...  I will rephrase myself a bit: everyone who see at least partially realistic alternative - try to move away from russia. Central asia - no alternative, no movements. China? IMHO Russia should be moving away from it, but no my business, I will save popcorns for when China decides to restore historical borders in Siberia.
Oh, and we forgot Japan, which is joining sanctions on its own free will, becase russia is trying to fuck it up too.

About Tatarstan, yes it is from Kremlin but not Moscow one, but Kazan. Care to explain? There are two Kremlins (or by extension  - even more?)? Or is there some mysterious god-knows-who appointed Kremlin as an organization in Kazan who selects leaders of Tatarstan?

Biggest ethnic group is just that - biggest ethnic group. Majority is when there is 50%+1 or more. 34/33/33% split biggest ethnic group is 34%, but they are not majority. Sorry to disappoint you. Unless you are using some "only in putlers russia"(c) grammar.

Oh, and some thoughts on the new russian budged for 2015 http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/09/russian-budget

Years old rumors of political poisoning, defending against silly Georgia blitzkrieg 6 years ago, repressing insurgency in their own territory, supporting a pro-Russian rebellion today.
Thats about all you can blame on Russia since USSR fell. And thats about all we hear whenever someone say, "hey see US/EU interests in Ukraine? Might mean something!", but since Russia has been/is bad then lets just say nothing is happening on the other side 

A bit too easy...
I was blamed for trying to compare Russia's doing to US/EU influence in the last twenties and always got called for it. But the opposite is okay even though the proportion doesnt fit?

You oversimplify, so I will oversimplify back: you are comparing "We are EU, its cool to live here, come over, we will screw you some, you will screw us some, we will have a nice consensual fuck-fest and all will be well" with a russian "bend over harder, you don't have a right to resist". Which would any sane mind choose?

[Vovka]

Oh, and we forgot Japan, which is joining sanctions on its own free will, becase russia is trying to fuck it up too.

Japanese required muricas to lobby for their interests in the East China Sea, as they have no chance to stand alone against the Chinese war machine. So they are willing to swallow as deep as only allows  their body height. But you are tried.

[Kuujis]

Japanese required muricas to lobby for their interests in the East China Sea, as they have no chance to stand alone against the Chinese war machine. So they are willing to swallow as deep as only allows  their body height. But you are tried.

IF China chose to go to war, it would definitely attack Japan, which has basically ZERO stuff that China wants/needs, instead of russia, which siberia is basically all they want/need. True story. Cool story. Cant wait for the popcorns to pop.

[DonNicko]

Biggest ethnic group is just that - biggest ethnic group. Majority is when there is 50%+1 or more. 34/33/33% split biggest ethnic group is 34%, but they are not majority. Sorry to disappoint you. Unless you are using some "only in putlers russia"(c) grammar.

So can you tell me how many tatars were in Tatarstan in 1992? MM? Clever boy? In 1989 there were 48,5 % OK. Maybe you don't know that after USSR fell, 85% of migration to Tatarstan were tatars, also you can add there Chuvashs and other similar ethnic groups. How do you think they got 61,4% in referendum of indenpedance of Tatarstan? OMG why I'm talking to you

[Kuujis]

So can you tell me how many tatars were in Tatarstan in 1992? MM? Clever boy? In 1989 there were 48,5 % OK. Maybe you don't know that after USSR fell, 85% of migration to Tatarstan were tatars, also you can add there Chuvashs and other similar ethnic groups. How do you think they got 61,4% in referendum of indenpedance of Tatarstan? OMG why I'm talking to you

I don't know I'm stupid remember?

LETS SAY, there were 100000 citizens there, of these - 60% voted, how can it be, that there are 61% who voted one way or another... I do not know, you tell me, I'm stupid remember? In any case - I do not see any point in comparing apples to oranges, Tatarstan and Ukraines situations were not equal and you can't compare them without making big adjustments or ignoring bunches of other aspects. Or rather - you can, but it will not make much sense and will be a shallow BS.

[Molly]

Years old rumors of political poisoning, defending against silly Georgia blitzkrieg 6 years ago, repressing insurgency in their own territory, supporting a pro-Russian rebellion today.
Thats about all you can blame on Russia since USSR fell. And thats about all we hear whenever someone say, "hey see US/EU interests in Ukraine? Might mean something!", but since Russia has been/is bad then lets just say nothing is happening on the other side 

A bit too easy...
I was blamed for trying to compare Russia's doing to US/EU influence in the last twenties and always got called for it. But the opposite is okay even though the proportion doesnt fit?

I can't remember anyone in here actually denying that US/EU have their flaws, doing shitty things. Hell, especially the US has several threads blaming them as a war machine.
This thread is or rather used to be about the Ukraine. What's the point in your "...but the US/EU did..."? Kuujis calls it "whataboutism", I think.
I feel like the loudest people in this thread right now are "Russia did barely anything wrong, it's all cool actually, geopolitics and shit, NATO had it coming". And then you come along with "But this coin has 2 sides!"
No shit, Sherlock... -.-

Just look at Nicko, trying so hard to blame everyone else but Russia.
Me:"Russia send troops into the Ukraine." Murmi/Nicko:"...but Kiev shot back!" Butan:"It ain't that easy."
What kind of discussion is this?

It actually is pretty easy. Russia did send troops into a sovereign country they had no right to be in and took a piece of that sovereign country. That's not cool. That is wrong. And from that point onward it went ape-shit. Who knows what had happened if they didn't go in guns in hand? My guess is: There wouldn't have been a civil war.

So yes, for this specific situation right now, for all those deaths on both sides, I do blame Russia. They had no business in there with guns. But why waste time with sending in diplomats, right? You want people to talk rather than to shoot when Russia was actually the first aggressor bringing in the big guns.
Then Nicko comes again with "ODESSA!", completely denying the simple fact that Kiev got overwhelmed with other things (Russian troops on their territory is kinda occupying!) and they therefore didn't even have the chance to investigate anything.

Everyone seems so blinded in here by informations from all over the place that nobody uses simple common sense.

One single and simple fact stands for me and is decisive imo: The Green Men were Russian Special forces with big guns. End of story.

[DonNicko]

Tatars in tatarstan are NOT majority according to census http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatarstan#cite_note-2010Census-9.

You stated that Tatars are not majority, remeber that Tatarstan wanted to seperate in 90's not in 1989

I don't know

Now you say that you don't know how many tatars were in 1992. So you just said bullshit about what I said, I think just to disprove, but as always far far away just sitting on your sofa.

I don't know I'm stupid remember?

LETS SAY, there were 100000 citizens there, of these - 60% voted, how can it be, that there are 61% who voted one way or another... I do not know, you tell me, I'm stupid remember? In any case - I do not see any point in comparing apples to oranges, Tatarstan and Ukraines situations were not equal and you can't compare them without making big adjustments or ignoring bunches of other aspects. Or rather - you can, but it will not make much sense and will be a shallow BS.

I just state that you don't know the situation only from your medias and speak about like you know something and this is stupid, you don't know what happened in Tatarstan, and still trying to teach me what happened here where I live all my life. Because of that you are stupid one. Ok what do you want to tell about Kosovo?

[Kuujis]

You stated that Tatars are not majority, remeber that Tatarstan wanted to seperate in 90's not in 1989
Now you say that you don't know how many tatars were in 1992. So you just said bullshit about what I said, I think just to disprove, but as always far far away just sitting on your sofa.
I just state that you don't know the situation only from your medias and speak about like you know something and this is stupid, you don't know what happened in Tatarstan, and still trying to teach me what happened here where I live all my life. Because of that you are stupid one. Ok what do you want to tell about Kosovo?

you really want to argue about math and grammer... Fine
1989 - 1,765,404    48.5%    
2002 - 2,000,116    52.9%

Somewhere in between Tatars became majority, you can argue till you drop dead when that became true, I don't care That makes you feel better? ALSO - somewhere in between they lost any hope of independence and thats fine, their own business, again - what do I care? Should they attempt anything like in the 1990's - they would go to jail and not to negotiation table most likely.  Thats my personal oppinion, but I'm stupid, what the hell do I know, right?

You live there, you KNOW that russia is a nicest country to its minorities, to native russians, to everyone etc. beyond words, bla bla bla and that's why majority of its neighbors try to find someone, who would be willing to protect them from a nice neighbor that russia imagines it is. And if something in those countries goes wrong - its definitely US/WEST/NATO/ *THEM*, not the russia (which incidentally has occupied territory in 3 of its neighbors... completely unrelated. had to protect russians... from... well ... *ITS COMPLICATED, OK?*).

And what the fuck does Kosovo has to do with the bullshit russia is causing in Ukraine? Another lesson how independence can be achieved properly and another pointer at how russia failed to learn the lesson?