Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Xant]

Please come and visit Burgerstan so you can witness the thousands of 600lb fatties swiping EBT, then rolling out of the grocery stores, cart wheels breaking, filled with junk food.

Meanwhile we can't even fix our basic infrastructure (roads, electrical grid, internet, etc) because we're too busy giving all of the money to the fat white trash.

So, these fatties are capable of affording so much food they can get super fat and continue to eat like that.. despite not working? That is not an argument against prosperity. On the contrary. Nobody forces them to get fat, that's their own choice. A choice they can make because they live in a prosperous country.

[lombardsoup]

So, these fatties are capable of affording so much food they can get super fat and continue to eat like that.. despite not working? That is not an argument against prosperity. On the contrary. Nobody forces them to get fat, that's their own choice. A choice they can make because they live in a prosperous country.

Living off of others is prosperity?  LOL.  Western nations are mere shadows of their former selves.  Nobody works and yet they all talk about is FREEDUMB FREEDUMB FREEDUMB like something straight out of an Orwell novel.

[Xant]

Living off of others is prosperity?  LOL.  Western nations are mere shadows of their former selves.  Nobody works and yet they all talk about is FREEDUMB FREEDUMB FREEDUMB in something straight out of an Orwell novel.

Yes, it is. Why would it not be? As I've said two times before, they can easily get more money per month than workers in FSU countries do on average. You seem very confused; it's clear you have an axe to grind with these "freeloaders", yet you're just shooting yourself in the foot by trying to grind it in this particular conversation.

Not working has nothing to do with freedom, nothing at all.

[lombardsoup]

Yes, it is. Why would it not be? As I've said two times before, they can easily get more money per month than workers in FSU countries do on average. You seem very confused; it's clear you have an axe to grind with these "freeloaders", yet you're just shooting yourself in the foot by trying to grind it in this particular conversation.

Not working has nothing to do with freedom, nothing at all.

Yes it does, it means the west is filled with lazy fat hypocrites.

They've already "freed the shit" out of the middle east and destabilized the entire region over a decade or so, I guess Ukraine is next?

[Xant]

Yes it does, it means the west is filled with lazy fat hypocrites.

They've already "freed the shit" out of the middle east and destabilized the entire region over a decade or so, I guess Ukraine is next?

You've made zero logical arguments so far, and seems you want to continue with the trend. West being filled with lazy fat hypocrites has nothing to do with what Molly said: living well. And he actually said that the west provides for their population. You apparently seem to think you're disagreeing, even though you're just strengthening his point with every post you make.

[lombardsoup]

You've made zero logical arguments so far, and seems you want to continue with the trend. West being filled with lazy fat hypocrites has nothing to do with what Molly said: living well. And he actually said that the west provides for their population. You apparently seem to think you're disagreeing, even though you're just strengthening his point with every post you make.

Can you call it prosperity when you have to invade other nations to gain it?

[Xant]

Can you call it prosperity when you have to invade other nations to gain it?

Can you apple a strawberry if you have to squeeze a potato?

[lombardsoup]

Can you apple a strawberry if you have to squeeze a potato?

Go invade another oil rich nation and call it "liberation" if you please.

[Xant]

Go invade another oil rich nation and call it "liberation" if you please.

I wonder if you can change your argument a few more times when you notice you've been spewing nonsense.

Molly: People live very comfortably in so-called "bad democracies." They provide for their citizens.
lombardsoup: urhhh no they dont proof: the west gives tons of free money to its citizens
Xant: How is that an argument against providing for citizens and living comfortably?
lombardsoup: urghh uh can u still call it providing for its citizens if u have to invade to do it?? hodor

You can't even understand that the means have nothing to do with the end. If someone has a lot of apples, it is indeed accurate to say that he has a lot of apples, and thus can be said to be very well off when it comes to apples... even if he murdered someone to get those apples. Or if he worked hard to get them. It's a different argument altogether if you start debating the morality of his acquisition of said apples. And that's just one of your logical fallacies.

[lombardsoup]

Xant: A REAL MURICAN HERO

USA COMING TO SAVE THE MOTHERFUCKING DAY (no matter who gets killed along the way)

You can parachute into Ukraine with John McCain!

[Thomek]

OK.. I think its clear now after 100s of pages:

The majority who supports RF are either:

A. Nationalistic Russians. (Nationalistic anything=Pretty narrow minded and retarded)
B. Conspiracy freaks.

What they share is skepticism about the world hegemony of the west, which is a fair point!

Yes the US is bad,
yes Europe is bad,
I wholeheartedly agree.

There are however many things much worse than US and EU. One of them are the Russian Federation represented by Putin and his oligarchs.

If you doubt me:
*People are leaving the country en masse:  http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/russian-emigration-spikes-in-2013-2014/
*Massive corruption on all levels of society and money is above the Law:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Russia
*Widespread racism against everyone not-Russian. (Asians, People from Caucasus, westerners, blacks, jews, gays) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPUoHw25H2M
*Russia has the world's highest rate of income inequality, barring a few Caribbean islands:  http://themoscownews.com/oped/20131011/191978277/Russias-income-inequality-the-root-of-most-evil.html
*People that protest this, and alternative media are shut down, killed or silenced.

.....

Maidan wanted to be free from RF influence, and turn the other way. Those who already chose EU have way better living than them already (Rest of Eastern europe), and it kind of proves the point:

West > Russia

Even if we are devils in other parts of the world, in this case, RF is the greater devil.

[lombardsoup]

OK.. I think its clear now after 100s of pages:

The majority who supports RF are either:

A. Nationalistic Russians. (Nationalistic anything=Pretty narrow minded and retarded)
B. Conspiracy freaks.

What they share is skepticism about the world hegemony of the west, which is a fair point!

Yes the US is bad,
yes Europe is bad,
I wholeheartedly agree.

There are however many things much worse than US and EU. One of them are the Russian Federation represented by Putin and his oligarchs.

If you doubt me:
*People are leaving the country en masse:  http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/russian-emigration-spikes-in-2013-2014/
*Massive corruption on all levels of society and money is above the Law:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Russia
*Widespread racism against everyone not-Russian. (Asians, People from Caucasus, westerners, blacks, jews, gays) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPUoHw25H2M
*Russia has the world's highest rate of income inequality, barring a few Caribbean islands:  http://themoscownews.com/oped/20131011/191978277/Russias-income-inequality-the-root-of-most-evil.html
*People that protest this, and alternative media are shut down, killed or silenced.

.....

Maidan wanted to be free from RF influence, and turn the other way. Those who already chose EU have way better living than them already (Rest of Eastern europe), and it kind of proves the point:

West > Russia

Even if we are devils in other parts of the world, in this case, RF is the greater devil.

The biggest warmongers on the planet are in 'murica, if the past 15 years have been any indication.  I'm less concerned about Putin doing something...'murica will once again try to play hero and fuck things up.  The US can't resist the temptation of MOAR OIL (and a freshwater port in southern Ukraine).  Its who they've become.

[[ptx]]

Name one country (that isnt part of the Russia federation) that has been taken under control by Russia or attempted to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_Russia

[Kuujis]

Where do you think mercenaries/ideological fighters lives? Not necessarily where they are employed, and probably they take some "vacations" from time to time Whats funniest is even those not at war countries files charges of "terrorism" on those caught with weapons...    I guess if they found out those people were fighting AGAINST pro-Russian in Ukraine they would release them with a pat on the back!

INB4 latvs jump their shit.

I believe even the paranoid Latvians know when "illegal possesion of guns" is applicable and when "terrorism" is suitable. In this particular case, you comfortably missed the part, where these guys were eagerly advocating and planning to leave to fight a legitimate government in another country. Sounds like terrorism to me, if there is a definition of one.

Name one country (that isnt part of the Russia federation) that has been taken under control by Russia or attempted to.

oh... I don't know... can you please define your "control"?

I know that Putin is not innocent at all. But the US and the NATO have been more aggressive in the past than Russia and even now they continue sanctioning Russia without any reason.
If you don't want to watch the video then it's okay. I know you are falling for the mass media propaganda.

"I know russia aint a saint, but booh ooh - look at all the others doing the same, thats a good excuse for poor victim russia." NATO being aggressive? Can you please cite cases of such... AGGRESSIVENESS? And then - can you please define, what you would call an aggression?

As to sanctioning russia - I see no reason to stop, while russia continues to violate sovereignity of Ukraine, which is the main cause of the sanctions. True, there has been some withdrawal. To possitions, which would allow to be back in a second. However - another batch of half emtpy trucks just came, without checking, inspections or approval. Russia continues to stir shit in eastern Ukraine (e.g. same shit, which happened in Georgia, with giving russian pasports to citizens of Donetsk/Luhansk, I'm not even going to talk about making up shit regarding fighting german nuns, who are actually actors, too funny).

So how do you see "sanctioning russia" to be "without any reason"? I see too lax sanctions from my POV.

Now this shit:

Novorossia is the real revolutionary movment against oligarchy in Ukraine, with a real social program.

What is exactly Ukraine's political programm ? Send natural resources to the West, borrow money to IMF, austerity plan, privatization, patriotic war against anything russian, NATO bases and missiles lauchers etc.

This shit I will put next to "Ukraine does have its own geopolitical interests, but these interests are being superseded by Western and Russian geopolitical interests." by Murmi.

The biggest warmongers on the planet are in 'murica, if the past 15 years have been any indication.  I'm less concerned about Putin doing something...'murica will once again try to play hero and fuck things up.  The US can't resist the temptation of MOAR OIL (and a freshwater port in southern Ukraine).  Its who they've become.

Way to dodge the arguments. "Oooohhhh.. look, a buterfly" works as well, try it next time.

I frankly share Thomeks sentiment there: west are not ideal, but as one bible lover put it :

3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
(Matthew 7:3-5)

[DonNicko]

Maidan wanted to be free from RF influence

Can somebody from experts show me what influence was that?