Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Kalam]

No conspiracy, no.

There is a strange lack of information in the media, though, concerning the possible (if not probable) United States involvement in Ukraine prior to the public outrage of Russian involvement.

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/2/20/a_new_cold_war_ukraine_violence

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/politics/fuck-the-eu-frustrated-nuland-says-to-pyatt-in-alleged-leaked-phone-call-336373.html

If this is true, it changes how the conflict is viewed.

I mean, what would the United States do if Russia influenced elements in Mexico and caused a democratically elected government to be replaced with one with closer ties to Russia?

Edit: Here's the transcript. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

[Butan]

No, its not the cold war. Rather - its the lesson learned from appeasing the naztee Germany before WW2.

Thats the second argument, yes, and far from being the most arguable. Godwin points are so 2000's.

I mean, what would the United States do if Russia influenced elements in Mexico and caused a democratically elected government to be replaced with one with closer ties to Russia?

Soft coups or how US/EU are much smarter and Russia too blunt!

[Kuujis]

At some point even you will wake up. Until then it doesn't make much sense to discuss with you. Watching this video and paying attention to what is said would be very helpful. Face the reality and you will feel much better and freer...

I should star believing a guy, who talks about conspiracies with a straight face, and THEN I will be worth discussing with? Sorry, but no dice.

Look, I understand and accept perfectly fine, that there are a BUNCH of interests in Ukraine, including those of Ukraine itself. What you FAIL to understand, that SOME means of achieving those goals go beyond what I tolerate and would call "acceptable". russia annexing Crimea and causing civil war in the eastern Ukraine are two examples of these actions. putler sending in his troops is another.

[Umbra]

Okai... why exactly should Ukraine CARE about what russia thinks it needs done in "there"?

They werent asked.

And what EU/NATO did, besides being an alternative?

Exactly

This "relativism of values" is bullshit, which is the last clinging place for people trying to justify russia. Don't call me naive for having seen both sides of barricades and knowing which side I prefer and why. Do you?

Geopolitics dont care which side you prefer or about your own sense of which side is more moral/right. I dont even support Russia, they can go suck a bag of dicks for all i care.

[Murmillus_Prime]

Hey, tip: Before you start calling people fuckwits, Learn to use the modify post button instead of spamming four times in a row like a moron.

You shitbag brainless fuckwit 

I'll make a point of not doing so. 

Teach mi plismissir..

[Murmillus_Prime]

I read. Your statements, which are quite absolute and inflamatory in nature, are a lie, if strictly speaking. You care to rephrase them, ala "there were far-right elements in the Maidan protests, who forced Yanukovich to flee"? I would not call this a lie.

Many millions... care to cite your sources? But in any case - we live in a democracy, people will vote (if allowed by russia) and will decide as a nation what they want. I do not have a problem with that. putler and russia behind him does have a problem with this though.

And then - this pearl:Ukraine does have its own geopolitical interests  I will single it out, call you a liar, a dumb-idiot, an russian apologist, brainwashed fuck and generally a person, unable to value freedom, which does not mean anything to you anymore, since you take it for granted. And I will leave it at that.

Trading one external power for another, the other which has been involved in multiple wars of aggression in the Middle-East, North Africa and West Asia and even south East Europe only these past 18 years, is not a bid for freedom. It's about the illegitimate coup government comprised of extremists, oligarchs and the odd decent person who actually cares about Ukraine galvanised by external interference jumping out of bed with one power and into bed with another.

You're brainwashed and stupid for not even realising this, you're so anti-Russian you can't see the truth of events as they transpire in-front of our very eyes, on the media, the internet, reports on events and the situations which lead to the events that come to be.

[Christo]

http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/35542/#.VBOhXqMdPxT

To our fellow Latvs, what do you know about this?

Also guess who doubleposted again. Do you have problems using a forum or something?

[Turkhammer]

Russians coming home in coffins; Kremlin stifles dissent.

http://news.yahoo.com/special-report-moscow-stifles-dissent-soldiers-return-coffins-090051931.html

[Christo]

Guess they were sunbathing too much on vacation.

[Anuran]

I should star believing a guy, who talks about conspiracies with a straight face, and THEN I will be worth discussing with? Sorry, but no dice.

Look, I understand and accept perfectly fine, that there are a BUNCH of interests in Ukraine, including those of Ukraine itself. What you FAIL to understand, that SOME means of achieving those goals go beyond what I tolerate and would call "acceptable". russia annexing Crimea and causing civil war in the eastern Ukraine are two examples of these actions. putler sending in his troops is another.

I know that Putin is not innocent at all. But the US and the NATO have been more aggressive in the past than Russia and even now they continue sanctioning Russia without any reason.
If you don't want to watch the video then it's okay. I know you are falling for the mass media propaganda.

[Butan]

http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/35542/#.VBOhXqMdPxT

To our fellow Latvs, what do you know about this?

Where do you think mercenaries/ideological fighters lives? Not necessarily where they are employed, and probably they take some "vacations" from time to time Whats funniest is even those not at war countries files charges of "terrorism" on those caught with weapons...    I guess if they found out those people were fighting AGAINST pro-Russian in Ukraine they would release them with a pat on the back!

INB4 latvs jump their shit.

[[ptx]]

Earlier this month, there were like two people going around in a car with that separatist flag (there's a good number of videos taken of them driving around, in one at least, they notice that they are being filmed, take down the flag quickly and start driving aggressively against the one filming), trying to recruit fighters. They got sanctioned, but i suppose they found at least someone willing to go. Gun laws are pretty strict here, illegal arms and attempts to get people to go fight abroad are both serious offenses.

[Tovi]

Novorossia is the real revolutionary movment against oligarchy in Ukraine, with a real social program.

What is exactly Ukraine's political programm ? Send natural resources to the West, borrow money to IMF, austerity plan, privatization, patriotic war against anything russian, NATO bases and missiles lauchers etc.

[Murmillus_Prime]

Novorossia is the real revolutionary movment against oligarchy in Ukraine, with a real social program.

What is exactly Ukraine's political programm ? Send natural resources to the West, borrow money to IMF, austerity plan, privatization, patriotic war against anything russian, NATO bases and missiles lauchers etc.

And what does NATO get from its new puppet? The perfect ground from which to situate "anti-ballistic missile" batteries, in a NATO attempt to nullify Russia's nuclear deterrent, a deterrent which guarantees Russia's sovereignty.

[Butan]

They got sanctioned, but i suppose they found at least someone willing to go. Gun laws are pretty strict here, illegal arms and attempts to get people to go fight abroad are both serious offenses.

Indeed, and quite justified, but terrorist charges, seriously?