Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Butan]

Dont waste your time on Xant, Dark Blade; when he doesnt pretend to be more stupid than he is, like now, he is trying to sound smart, and fails.

*Rebellion begins. Leaders are "former" KGB officers from Russia..
*Rebels have lots of tanks and heavy gear from "somewhere"

I agree with most of your timeline Thomek (except some details), but there has been months between those two lines... Hence you're missing a lot. And blatantly ignoring/forgetting the "local(s)" reasons why the rebellion is, but thats something everyone else does so I'm not surprised.

[Murmillus_Prime]

Dont waste your time on Xant, Dark Blade; when he doesnt pretend to be more stupid than he is, like now, he is trying to sound smart, and fails.




I agree with most of your timeline Thomek (except some details), but there has been months between those two lines... Hence you're missing a lot. And blatantly ignoring/forgetting the "local(s)" reasons why the rebellion is, but thats something everyone else does so I'm not surprised.

Probably because its not a point our mainstream media has focused on, when individuals base their information primarily from mainstream media sources which they trust, such perspectives are formed.

[DonNicko]

I just want people not to forget that incident where armed russian convoy crossed the border and were destroyed by Ukranian army. Because gensec Nato confirmed that, and some other countries, lol but USA didn't confirm that. But ok let's see how this fake will disappear later)

[Tibe]

Probably because its not a point our mainstream media has focused on, when individuals base their information primarily from mainstream media sources which they trust, such perspectives are formed.

You still thinking that its western propaganda that has shaped such a hostile viewpoint of Russia shows just how little you really know.

Also
Alexander Zaharchenko, who is basically the new leader said that 1200 russian troops with 120 APCs and 30 tanks were coming as reinforcements. Quess those reports werent fake afterall. Unless he is full of shit.
His statement

and the news
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/16/ukraine-rebels-boast-about-troops-and-tanks-coming-from-russia.html

[Murmillus_Prime]

You still thinking that its western propaganda that has shaped such a hostile viewpoint of Russia shows just how little you really know.

Also
Alexander Zaharchenko, who is basically the new leader said that 1200 russian troops with 120 APCs and 30 tanks were coming as reinforcements. Quess those reports werent fake afterall. Unless he is full of shit.
His statement

and the news
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/16/ukraine-rebels-boast-about-troops-and-tanks-coming-from-russia.html

A story without evidence may as well be propaganda, especially from media sources which appear to favour the side our governments favour.

[DonNicko]

(click to show/hide)

You still thinking that its western propaganda that has shaped such a hostile viewpoint of Russia shows just how little you really know.

Also
Alexander Zaharchenko, who is basically the new leader said that 1200 russian troops with 120 APCs and 30 tanks were coming as reinforcements. Quess those reports werent fake afterall. Unless he is full of shit.
His statement

lol you don't know russian? He says that they collected 150 APC from them 30 tanks. And 1200 troops not russian but ukranian which were trained on the territory of Russia.

[Tibe]

No. But thanks for translating. Lol. Really? I figured as much. Since someone would probably film 120 APCs and 30 tanks crossing a border. -1 for Western media, I suppose.

A story without evidence may as well be propaganda, especially from media sources which appear to favour the side our governments favour.

Nah man, the fruits of that hostile viewpoint we have, have been grown by the russians themselves and noone else. Sure occasionally it bends the truth, like just right now. My personal anti-russianism is basically built upon personal experiences as many other people similar to me. Rather than massive newsreading. Really man, have you actually seen a diehard patriotic russian? There shitloads of them and they are basically intolerant of other cultures and basically haters in general.

In the Baltics you kinda see a lot and you can see and almost compare. A lot of fresh Russian immigrants being basically assholes in general, massive anti-west and haters in general. Granted not all of them are like it, But around 30% of younger people definately and majority of the elderly just being passionate pro-russians. While if you compare to the young people that are of russian heritage but raised in the Baltic. Lot calmer people, dont really have any political alignment to either West or Russia, basically being neutral entirely. Say what you want about Western propaganda but it never turns people into such massive haters as it does in the East. You can easly even compare the internetcomments. Majority of the Western people are all like: "Fuck you, we dont want war, lets stay home" while majority of Russian comments are: "I support that we sent troops there" and "we should send more troops". So wtf are you talking about NATO propaganda to take over the world while the majority of its citizens are furiously trying to convince their governments to not send any military aid to anywhere.

[Murmillus_Prime]

No. But thanks for translating. Lol. Really? I figured as much. Since someone would probably film 120 APCs and 30 tanks crossing a border. -1 for Western media, I suppose.
Nah man, the fruits of that hostile viewpoint we have, have been grown by the russians themselves and noone else. Sure occasionally it bends the truth, like just right now. My personal anti-russianism is basically built upon personal experiences as many other people similar to me. Rather than massive newsreading. Really man, have you actually seen a diehard patriotic russian? There shitloads of them and they are basically intolerant of other cultures and basically haters in general.

In the Baltics you kinda see a lot and you can see and almost compare. A lot of fresh Russian immigrants being basically assholes in general, massive anti-west and haters in general. Granted not all of them are like it, But around 30% of younger people definately and majority of the elderly just being passionate pro-russians. While if you compare to the young people that are of russian heritage but raised in the Baltic. Lot calmer people, dont really have any political alignment to either West or Russia, basically being neutral entirely. Say what you want about Western propaganda but it never turns people into such massive haters as it does in the East. You can easly even compare the internetcomments. Majority of the Western people are all like: "Fuck you, we dont want war, lets stay home" while majority of Russian comments are: "I support that we sent troops there" and "we should send more troops". So wtf are you talking about NATO propaganda to take over the world while the majority of its citizens are furiously trying to convince their governments to not send any military aid to anywhere.

Yes many people do see through the propaganda, many people are just anti-war no matter the circumstances, but then you have people who excuse NATO involvement in conflicts, because they are either nationalist, or racist, or bought up in a system and in communities who were taught to hate certain peoples and ethnicities. "Why bother criticise our own governments for their own murderous and hypocritical behaviour, we've been raised to hate Russians and that's all that matters!"Such as in Ukraine videos emerging of Ukrainian organisations encouraging children to dance in a circle holding hands around a burning effigy of Putin. This kind of systematic widespread form of propagandised upbringing will discourage people from asking the difficult questions and objectively throwing their two cents in and instead tow their governments line, "kill the aggressive Russians just because!"

[Xant]

Dont waste your time on Xant, Dark Blade; when he doesnt pretend to be more stupid than he is, like now, he is trying to sound smart, and fails.

Coming from you, the pet retard... 

[Turkhammer]

Probably because its not a point our mainstream media has focused on, when individuals base their information primarily from mainstream media sources which they trust, such perspectives are formed.

Why do you trust any random web site anymore than you trust mainstream media?  What is it that makes you think that the "alternate" news that you get on those sites is any less agenda driven than mainstream media? 

Yes many people do see through the propaganda, many people are just anti-war no matter the circumstances, but then you have people who excuse NATO involvement in conflicts, because they are either nationalist, or racist, or bought up in a system and in communities who were taught to hate certain peoples and ethnicities. "Why bother criticise our own governments for their own murderous and hypocritical behaviour, we've been raised to hate Russians and that's all that matters!"Such as in Ukraine videos emerging of Ukrainian organisations encouraging children to dance in a circle holding hands around a burning effigy of Putin. This kind of systematic widespread form of propagandised upbringing will discourage people from asking the difficult questions and objectively throwing their two cents in and instead tow their governments line, "kill the aggressive Russians just because!"

Your problem MP is that you hopelessly conflate Russian use of, or threatened use of force with NATO's willingness to accept the application of erstwhile Soviet Bloc countries.  NATO didn't say "you must join or we'll bankrupt you and probably invade you", to Poland.  That's essentially what Russian has done with Georgia and now with Ukraine.  Your point of view is typical of a knee jerk reaction that says if my government says it it must be a lie.

There is plenty of reasons that people in the former Soviet Bloc countries may hate Russia.  There is no need for propaganda to stir hatred. 

[Tibe]

Yes many people do see through the propaganda, many people are just anti-war no matter the circumstances, but then you have people who excuse NATO involvement in conflicts, because they are either nationalist, or racist, or bought up in a system and in communities who were taught to hate certain peoples and ethnicities. "Why bother criticise our own governments for their own murderous and hypocritical behaviour, we've been raised to hate Russians and that's all that matters!"Such as in Ukraine videos emerging of Ukrainian organisations encouraging children to dance in a circle holding hands around a burning effigy of Putin. This kind of systematic widespread form of propagandised upbringing will discourage people from asking the difficult questions and objectively throwing their two cents in and instead tow their governments line, "kill the aggressive Russians just because!"

And whose government and system is doing that? Eastern-EU countries are considered to be the most anti-russian, yet their governments are mainly concentrated on trying to convince their citizens and countries that they are diehard europeans and not USSR or something and generally dont show open hostility towards their eastern neibhour unless it shows it first in large quantities and show almost 0 hostility towards their russian minorities. If some guys are hardcore pro-NATO its due to their choice, but frankly I havent really seen a person who is pro-NATO, majority of people here are just meh about it and quite sure its the same in majority of EU. So yea......unless NATO cant propaganda properly or its just not trying very hard.....

And before you say Ukr government is doing that. Id like to remind you that Ukr doesnt really count. Since they are more or less at state of war with Russia. People do tend to fall into extremes during times of war.

[Xant]

As for lies of the Russian government, I won't even bother to point it all out. Anyone who has to ask where they've lied clearly hasn't followed the Ukraine conflict. Just start from the mystery gunmen in Russian gear at Crimea and what Russia claimed.

[DonNicko]

As for lies of the Russian government, I won't even bother to point it all out. Anyone who has to ask where they've lied clearly hasn't followed the Ukraine conflict. Just start from the mystery gunmen in Russian gear at Crimea and what Russia claimed.

They claimed that those soldiers were special forces, but yes before they denied it to prevent more conflict. Anything else? If you say that they lie more then russian propoganda then I want moar Xant moar.

[Xant]

They claimed that those soldiers were special forces, but yes before they denied it to prevent more conflict. Anything else? If you say that they lie more then russian propoganda then I want moar Xant moar.

"Denied it to prevent more conflict" 

And you can take your wants and stick them up your ass, assuming they'll all fit in there. I told you where Russia told DIRECT LIES and all you do is say "they did it to prevent more conflict!!!!!" Do your own research, if you're capable -- that is to say, not.

[DonNicko]

"Denied it to prevent more conflict" 

And you can take your wants and stick them up your ass, assuming they'll all fit in there. I told you where Russia told DIRECT LIES and all you do is say "they did it to prevent more conflict!!!!!" Do your own research, if you're capable -- that is to say, not.

I don't need it, just wanted to show that you don't answer for your words. They lied then Putin claimed that this were special forces. And I knew that you will act like this, hold your answer if you can.