Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Murmillus_Prime]

The ukrainian army seems to have attacked the russian convoy. That's what I just read. Not sure if true.

Like a lot of the stories the anti-Russian slanted media have been reporting lately, there is no evidence to support Kiev's accusations, just words.

A journalist from the telegraph in an interview with the BBC had apparently "witnessed" 23 armoured vehicles crossing into Ukraine through a "hole in the fence", this journalist I take it had no camera, or phone to take pictures with as he has completely ZERO evidence to support his story.

He couldn't take a photo of 23 armoured vehicles crossing into Ukraine and couldn't even take a photo of the purported hole in the fence, some journalist huh?

[Thomek]

Guardian journalists are not known to lie so blatantly though. Whatever it is, it is just a report, a plausible one.

And who, really, are so incredibly thick that they think Russia DOESN'T support the separatists with heavy materiel?
(I hope we all can agree on that here..)

Other than that you can believe or not believe that Russia also supports with special forces, allowing Russians to go fight there, shelling from russian side of border, BUK missiles etc etc etc..

You have to be intensely blind not to see the strong contours, rather the crisp and clear image after the events at hand:

*Corrupt Pro Russian prez escapes to Russia, after protests turning violent. chocolate chip cookies fight hardest.
*Crimea gets annexed not with "locals" but as Putin agreed: with help of RF regular forces.
*Images of the same guys protesting show up in Estonia, Crimea, and East Ukraine=organized revolt by someone.
*Rebellion begins. Leaders are "former" KGB officers from Russia..
*Rebels have lots of tanks and heavy gear from "somewhere"
*MH17 shot down. 2? days before, Ukraine lost mil plane at 5000m, thought Russia did it, because they thought Rebels only had manpads (3000m). MH17 went down in middle of rebel territory, probably rebels had big rockets. Probably supplied from Russia to neutralize Ukr air force. But who knows, maybe Ukr did it to remove the BUK's the rebels had from the area..
*Now, first journos find track marks crossing RF/Ukraine border. Soldiers says its tractors. 
*Then we get this report. At the same time controversial help Convoy distracts all attention from MH17.

I probably even forgot a lot. To me, the picture is pretty damn clear, disregarding propaganda from both sides:

Russia is actively supporting the rebels in Ukraine in military way. Why do we even discuss that.

[Xant]

Like a lot of the stories the anti-Russian slanted media have been reporting lately, there is no evidence to support Kiev's accusations, just words.

A journalist from the telegraph in an interview with the BBC had apparently "witnessed" 23 armoured vehicles crossing into Ukraine through a "hole in the fence", this journalist I take it had no camera, or phone to take pictures with as he has completely ZERO evidence to support his story.

He couldn't take a photo of 23 armoured vehicles crossing into Ukraine and couldn't even take a photo of the purported hole in the fence, some journalist huh?

He did take a picture you moron, good research as always - way to show off your retardation.

[DonNicko]

In the initial version of the message published on a site of the president of Ukraine at 14:22 local time, it wasn't spoken about destruction of the Russian military equipment, notices Russia Today. The message text as journalists found out, was copied about three hours later after the publication.

No Russian military column which allegedly crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border at night, in the afternoon — exists. Also it will be best of all if the Ukrainian artillery destroyed the phantom, but not refugees or own military personnel — the official representative of department major general Igor Konashenkov declared. — The similar statements based on some imaginations and to tell assumptions of journalists more true, shouldn't be a subject of serious discussion by the highest officials of any country. It is sad that not the facts, and journalistic ducks on social networks become a reason for top-level loud statements in a number of European and "the states which chose the European way"

[Xant]

Well, if Russia Today says so, it must be true.

[Kuujis]

Well, if Russia Today says so, it must be true.

After the crucified kid and "plane full of corpses" spectacles - how can your trust in RT waiver...

One guy on russian webs had this joke about all of this: "if I have to choose salmon from Norway Vs putlers imperialistic ambitions - I would choose salmon any time." Must be those 13%...

[Molly]

After the crucified kid and "plane full of corpses" spectacles - how can your trust in RT waiver...

One guy on russian webs had this joke about all of this: "if I have to choose salmon from Norway Vs putlers imperialistic ambitions - I would choose salmon any time." Must be those 13%...

I don't get the joke :3

[DonNicko]

I don't know about first statement, but second is official. And seems how SBU of Ukraine makes fakes most of the time, so Poroshenko believed in this fake, and many others countries. Really how serious people start to believe in not proved statements. And you guys too

[Xant]

I don't know about first statement, but second is official. And seems how SBU of Ukraine makes fakes most of the time, so Poroshenko believed in this fake, and many others countries. Really how serious people start to believe in not proved statements. And you guys too

Russian official statements are even more full of lies than their propaganda TV channels.

[DonNicko]

Russian official statements are even more full of lies than their propaganda TV channels.

Show me please, just want to see, because in Russia it is hard to see. I believe that you will give something, but please don't give fakes. Waiting.

[Xant]

Show me please, just want to see, because in Russia it is hard to see. I believe that you will give something, but please don't give fakes. Waiting.

?

[DonNicko]

?

It means show me fakes of russian officials, open your logic man

[Xant]

It means show me fakes of russian officials, open your logic man

*opens my logic*

[Dark_Blade]

Thomek, ofcourse everyone knows it but this support is as big as it is. not more, not less. some of those soldiers are just criminals who are not even able to come back to the russia. kossaks are not a real regular army. everything in this situation is simple and hard for understanding in same time. depends of your attention to details.

*opens my logic*

look there! see? its empty.

[Murmillus_Prime]

Guardian journalists are not known to lie so blatantly though. Whatever it is, it is just a report, a plausible one.

And who, really, are so incredibly thick that they think Russia DOESN'T support the separatists with heavy materiel?
(I hope we all can agree on that here..)

Other than that you can believe or not believe that Russia also supports with special forces, allowing Russians to go fight there, shelling from russian side of border, BUK missiles etc etc etc..

You have to be intensely blind not to see the strong contours, rather the crisp and clear image after the events at hand:

*Corrupt Pro Russian prez escapes to Russia, after protests turning violent. chocolate chip cookies fight hardest.
*Crimea gets annexed not with "locals" but as Putin agreed: with help of RF regular forces.
*Images of the same guys protesting show up in Estonia, Crimea, and East Ukraine=organized revolt by someone.
*Rebellion begins. Leaders are "former" KGB officers from Russia..
*Rebels have lots of tanks and heavy gear from "somewhere"
*MH17 shot down. 2? days before, Ukraine lost mil plane at 5000m, thought Russia did it, because they thought Rebels only had manpads (3000m). MH17 went down in middle of rebel territory, probably rebels had big rockets. Probably supplied from Russia to neutralize Ukr air force. But who knows, maybe Ukr did it to remove the BUK's the rebels had from the area..
*Now, first journos find track marks crossing RF/Ukraine border. Soldiers says its tractors. 
*Then we get this report. At the same time controversial help Convoy distracts all attention from MH17.

I probably even forgot a lot. To me, the picture is pretty damn clear, disregarding propaganda from both sides:

Russia is actively supporting the rebels in Ukraine in military way. Why do we even discuss that.

The timeline of events started before the Russian backed elected president fleeing after receiving death threats from neo n azi's, it started with American and European NGO's stirring dissent amongst anti-Russian factions within Ukraine and their attempts to spark a coup in which a Western friendly government would be brought to power. Both the West and Russia are playing dirty games, but the West has played it far more in many many more nations and regions than Russia ever has, not to excuse either side but a fact that most people seem to forget in their blind anti-Russian stance.

Actions conducted by NATO, its destabilization of the Middle-East, its war games being conducted in every ocean and region of the globe, its missile "defence" shield surrounding its geopolitical rivals justify Russia's recent actions and behaviours. The standard has been set by NATO and Russia doesn't even need to sink to their level to maintain its defence of its geopolitical interests.

Even if Russia overtly armed the separatists in East Ukraine, I wouldn't oppose it. Because the nations telling Russia that it should not do so are blatant hypocrites and have been arming dictators and separatists in other nations for decades.