Meanwhile in Ukraine

[DonNicko]

Victim of Russian propaganda obviously. You're wrong in the very roots of your statements, so basically persuading you means making a post with a length of this thread.

Russia annexed Crimea and tries to annex other parts of Ukraine. It's not a civil war and you can't find a peaceful decision there. The only possible peaceful decision is to give up area to Russia and if they do so they must be retarded entirely because it's obvious that Russian would never stop at getting just Donetsk and Lugansk, they would go for Kharkiv, Kherson, Mykolayiv, Zaporizhzhya and Odesa regions at least. And that's a half of Ukraine.

It is a blatant military aggression of Russian Federation and there is no right for any alternative opinion to exist. I don't want to discuss it anymore as it was proven so many times that even a brainless monkey would get persuaded.

Ok now I can say that you are victim of Ukraine propaganda. Watch what is annexing means. That wasn't forcefully made. Second Russia will not take Donetsk and Lugansk. It's just a part of Ukranian propoganda.

[Christo]

Ok now I can say that you are victim of Ukraine propaganda. Watch what is annexing means. That wasn't forcefully made.

 

[Xant]

That wasn't forcefully made.

Russian propaganda confirmed as working very well on Russians

[Mala]

I don't remember, I knew that there were russian troops on the border, but only after few weeks when revolution was made in Ukraine. That revolution was illegal. ...

Every political revolution is illegal. Anyway, i do remember.
The russian press has reported that after the violent roits in Kiev the right sector mob is heading towards to Crimea and there are already over 100 deads.
As prove for the violance on the Crimea they have shown some footages of the streetfights in Kiev.
And then the few days later "selfdefence troops" poped up out of nowhere.

[DonNicko]

Is it fake medal? Note the dates: 20.02.14 — 18.03.14
Start date was before maidan ended.
 Actually I hate conspirology, but I find it suspicious that start date on medal matches the date when a lot of people were killed on maidan. Another interesting fact is that leader of rebels Strelkov(Girkin) was in Kiev on that day. As I said I hate consirology, but these are some very strange coincidences.

Yes, about medal I heard only from Ukranians, seems fake that it was made on 20.02

Several examples? And how did they destablize situation? In fact it was very unstable the day maidan ended, it became much better since then.

I meant the revolution destabilized it, much better now but not on the East.

Wrong order. Some people in parliament helped to start civil war and were put out of parliament.

Party of regions and comunist party always claimed to stop this ATO, and because of that they were put out of parlament, where they helped to start this civil war?

Now that's lie. A lot of politicians were visiting both Crimea and East, especially candidates for president, and tried to talk with people. Just without effect.

interesting why there wasn't any effects. Maybe they start to visit it to late? I meant they didn't visit them when they could improve relation.

True, our authorities made a lot of mistakes, but that doesn't mean that they started war or that they are fully guilty of it. As of who can stop this - that's right, only Ukraine. By winning this stupid war. Russia can make it quicker by stopping supplying rebels, but I don't expect it to happen.

That's can be true, or stop ATO, I think russia really supply East, but there is no proof anyway.

Ask Dave what happened in Odessa, he probably knows better, just one thing.. There were no evil fascists from western Ukraine. Only football fans from Odessa and Kharkiv.

I asked him once, he answered that doesn't matter, because everyday die many people. Well amazing fans you have, it just hard to think that it was unplanned

[Tibe]

That's can be true, or stop ATO, I think russia really supply East, but there is no proof anyway.

There's shitton of proof. But every freaking pro-russian thinks its fake. Honestly theres a lot of evidence. But only way to stop pro-russians basically denying it is really if someone buys them a ticket to Donensk/Russian border sticks their faces literally infront of a tank that is covered with russian flags and is loudly playing the russian anthem and is driving through the border crossing. Even than I think they would find a way to say that there is no proof, unless it runs on RT news. 

Like Tovi for instance with claims like "NONO, Russia itself does not use such tanks anymore, thats why its completely impossible that they could give them to someone else cause they just dont exsist anymore, althou they built like thousands of them". And when you explain to him how it could be possible since his logic cant comprehend such simple things. He says "ye......but russian tanks have different modifications, thats why it is completely impossible....." Good god man!

[DonNicko]

There's shitton of proof. But every freaking pro-russian thinks its fake. Honestly theres a lot of evidence. But only way to stop pro-russians basically denying it is really if someone buys them a ticket to Donensk/Russian border sticks their faces literally infront of a tank that is covered with russian flags and is loudly playing the russian anthem and is driving through the border crossing. Even than I think they would find a way to say that there is no proof, unless it runs on RT news. 

Like Tovi for instance with claims like "NONO, Russia itself does not use such tanks anymore, thats why its completely impossible that they could give them to someone else cause they just dont exsist anymore, althou they built like thousands of them". And when you explain to him how it could be possible since his logic cant comprehend such simple things. He says "ye......but russian tanks have different modifications, thats why it is completely impossible....." Good god man!

Now there are OSCE mission on the border between Russia nad Ukraine, will see

[serr]

Yes, about medal I heard only from Ukranians, seems fake that it was made on 20.02

In that article there are lot of russian sources and some photos.

I meant the revolution destabilized it, much better now but not on the East.

You meant not on territory controlled by separatists. It is much smaller than East and in other eastern regions it's ok.

Party of regions and comunist party always claimed to stop this ATO, and because of that they were put out of parlament, where they helped to start this civil war?

Party of regions weren't put out of parliament, only comunists were and for good reason. They(party of regions too) tried to use separatists movement to save their power after maidan and first pro-russian protests were organized or supported by them. Also communists not only demanded to stop ATO, they were speaking the same things as russian propaganda do and that was main reason.

That's can be true, or stop ATO,

Stop ATO... What next? What area to give to DNR... You know, they don't control whole Donetsk and Luhansk regions, only around half of them.
And again, as we already said, if we'll stop ATO, rebels will likely go to next regions.

[Tibe]

Ye, OSCE viewers have stated that they are seriuslly pissed off since the separatists fighters constantly keep interrupting their mission. Even if they do find proof that Russia is sending the rebels equipment, most of the russian public would still call it fake and not believe it.

[DonNicko]

Ye, OSCE viewers have stated that they are seriuslly pissed off since the separatists fighters constantly keep interrupting their mission. Even if they do find proof that Russia is sending the rebels equipment, most of the russian public would still call it fake and not believe it.

Show me where they stated this

[Tibe]

Well the first teams started their mission at the beginning of this conflict got instantly captured by the separatists and than released. So they got had absolutely no intel, so quite obvious that they are mad. Look it up its everywhere.

And the teams that were sent to the civilianplane crash site got instantly stalled for many days, cause some other people claimed to be civilians who were actually russian experts were already there and didnt allow them to look at the site themselves until they were done with it. OSCE viewers claimed that parts of the plane had clearly been sawn off, so those russian experts were obviously there to cover evidence.

I was wrong about the bordermission however. Thought I find something but nah. I think its still underway. Absolutely certain if the russians are sending troops and weapons to Ukraine, the OSCE mission will get interupted again. Cause the separatists have now officially kidnapped and stopped OSCE viewers before. I think they will be allowed near the border once russia will stop sending militaryequipment. Cause Donensk is pretty close to being claimed by the Ukrainian army and this fight is pretty close to being lost for the separatists.

[DonNicko]

Well the first teams started their mission at the beginning of this conflict got instantly captured by the separatists and than released. So they got had absolutely no intel, so quite obvious that they are mad. Look it up its everywhere.

They were without any sighns, because they were captured, and wathc their interviews then say.

And the teams that were sent to the civilianplane crash site got instantly stalled for many days, cause some other people claimed to be civilians who were actually russian experts were already there and didnt allow them to look at the site themselves until they were done with it. OSCE viewers claimed that parts of the plane had clearly been sawn off, so those russian experts were obviously there to cover evidence.

Any proof or anothe western propoganda, give me official OSCE links

[Tibe]

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/121504
and
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2701981/Cockpit-MH17-sawn-half-spot-cordoned-pro-Russian-separatists-two-days-attack.html
Before you say that the source is shit, once again I remind you that I just picked a random one. The guy who made these statements was Michael Bociurkiw and he is the spokesman for the OSCE team there.
also
http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/18/investigators-arrive-at-malaysia-airlines-crash-scene-say-bodies-decomposing/
But this guy is kinda...ehh...too provoking I quess and his CNN. But he was there part of the team. So his story might partially be legit aswell.

[DaveUKR]

That's kinda hilarious how this logic works.
"I can say whatever I want, even an obvious bullshit - prove me wrong and persuade me because I will not prove it. If you say anything else - you must prove it or it's another western propaganda".
If we post something doubtful (and we always do), try to prove us wrong, just like I do with Tovi's fakes. Because otherwise it looks like one-sided debates. And repeating bullshit after a while simply doesn't work. If you wait for a little bit - most likely it will not become truth, things don't work like that. You assume things and assumptions always involve imprecisions, the more assumptions - the more imprecisions. If your whole thought is based on assumptions it basically is a huge imprecision which is AKA lie in most cases.

[DonNicko]

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/121504
and
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2701981/Cockpit-MH17-sawn-half-spot-cordoned-pro-Russian-separatists-two-days-attack.html
Before you say that the source is shit, once again I remind you that I just picked a random one. The guy who made these statements was Michael Bociurkiw and he is the spokesman for the OSCE team there.
also
http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2014/07/18/investigators-arrive-at-malaysia-airlines-crash-scene-say-bodies-decomposing/
But this guy is kinda...ehh...too provoking I quess and his CNN. But he was there part of the team. So his story might partially be legit aswell.

If parts were sawn, then it should be written on Official site of OSCE. Didn't find that. About other things that you wrote they are only your thoughts, not oficial investigation