Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Tovi]

You suck at not being a slave. Try harder.

You are probably right. I still consider myself as a slave. That's why I become more and more radical. You may find me, one day, in the siberian's forest, living with the wolves. 

[Leshma]

Which are... ? Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia, Syria ? Not to mention we are talking about international operations, unlike Georgia which was just the good old landgrab.
Besides, this argument is about as ridiculous as saying France is an evil superpower compared with Monaco.

The US has been more active in the last 20 years because Russia was in shambles, and most of its historical backyard entered NATO for reasons PTX already explained. Russia is weak outside of its regional sphere of influence and has no interest interfering with countries the US has been interfering with. In fact because Russia is positioning itself as an enemy to "American Hegemony", it seeks allies among the numerous shitholes. Shitholes pissed off because someone interferes with their "legitimate sovereignty".

What is "being a slave" ? As a Belgian I can tell you I'm so pissed I can't be a regional bully and annex Luxemburg. The world would be a much better place to live if we had medieval geopolitics. I absolutely would prefer that over living in peace, rule of law and prosperity.

[Porthos]

Hey, let us ignore absolutely every fucking foreign-policy related thing Russia has done in the last 20 years, my point is so fucking valid right now.

Can I ask you what offending things Russia did to the Baltic countries over the last 20 years?

[Lt_Anders]

Can I ask you what offending things Russia did to the Baltic countries over the last 20 years?

Considering how quickly they joined NATO, I don't think it matters. Russia has done plenty of shit in the past 70 years to piss off lots of people(US too, but US hasn't forcefully annexed/held territory like USSR did, did do a lot of covert actions though....)

[DonNicko]

On May 9 in Mariupol was a march in honor of the Great victory, 10000 people were acting in it. The Ukrainian army partitioned off a way with the help of the armored personnel carrier and Tanks. Then when people of Mariupol started to demand to clean the road from tanks, national guard started to shoot civils 3 men were killed and tens of people were wounded in first seconds. Also journalist of RT were wounded in his stomach. 3 Buildings were burned by batalion Dnepro. One of them was building of militia. For the last information 7 people were killed, about 40 were wounded. Chief of OSCE condemned violence in Mariupol

[Butan]

Hey, let us ignore absolutely every fucking foreign-policy related thing Russia has done in the last 20 years, my point is so fucking valid right now.

If foreign diplomacy count as bad-boy points to you, then yes Russia is very bad because they arent friendly with most of the lawful good NATO superpowers force of justice, and are friendly with some chaotic evil nations full of terrorists.
Thats not at all geopolitically biased points of views!

Here's a question: Do you count an Occupation as a War?

To occupy a country you need to be at war with the country, so yes 

If you're relating to what happened in Crimea, its a little bit more complicated since they used military personel authorized to station there by Ukraine itself before maidan happened.
And no civilians/military were killed during the occupation... I would say its the peacefulest non-UN military operation in the last decade.

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Actually one died in Crimea and it was after the region became Russian territory and Ukrainian personnel were still there and one forceful military barrack storming ended bad.

Besides, this argument is about as ridiculous as saying France is an evil superpower compared with Monaco.

Well, if this thread was on a civil war where Monaco was interfering and people came and said "Monaco is fascistest warmongering nation in the world! SOMEONE STOP THEM OMG 1!!!11§1§§!!!", you wouldnt be chaffed knowing France did absolutely more terrible things ?

[Butan]

If i have to choose between being a slave to USA or being a slave to Russia, i'll choose USA 100% of the time.

A smarter question would be: if I have to choose between a world with 1 global superpower and 2+, I would choose 2+.

USA cant be trusted with the fate of the planet (noone is except if they manage to conquer everything :d), and I will welcome the day Russia becomes great again mostly because we need an opposition to imperialism, even if its just a second imperialism, because thats always better than a kind of shady world dictatorship.

Then ofc I would also prefer there is no few uber-OP nations just choosing the destiny of everyone else, but its a thing of our time 

[DaveUKR]

On May 9 in Mariupol was a march in honor of the Great victory, 10000 people were acting in it. The Ukrainian army partitioned off a way with the help of the armored personnel carrier and Tanks. Then when people of Mariupol started to demand to clean the road from tanks, national guard started to shoot civils 3 men were killed and tens of people were wounded in first seconds. Also journalist of RT were wounded in his stomach. 3 Buildings were burned by batalion Dnepro. One of them was building of militia. For the last information 7 people were killed, about 40 were wounded. Chief of OSCE condemned violence in Mariupol

That's how media in your country shows the situation. Yes, Ukrainians are so stupid nаzis that they need to provoke even in such days. OH SHIT, WE MUST KILL THEM ALL, HAIL TO GREAT PUTIN.
Funny though how they forget or even turn in inside out: pro-Russian separatists (armed, around 60) tried to capture the main police building in the city. National Guard of Ukraine (which is under Police jurisdiction and not Army) got called to defend the building. Also a chief of DAI (a kind of road/patrol police) got killed there by separatists that day. While NG was trying to get to a place, some certain amount of people tried to stop APCs being aggressive (a lot of people were drunk, but that's not strange for such day as it's a kind of ritual to drink some vodka on 9th of May as a day of Victory).

In this current situation I have double feelings. First of all, it's a pity that people die, no matter separatists or not and especially when they have no guns. But on the other hand, Ukrainians have a bitter experience with these "peaceful protesters" who block NG/army and take their guns. I'll show you one of curious videos which was used by Russian media as a proof of NG shooting at peaceful people. Just noticed one thing myself, that might be exclusive, just give me time to find it 

Edit: found it. And also it looks like I'm not the only one who noticed it 

Look at 12th second. Why would he need this? It's empty though, mb found or stole it somewhere.

(click to show/hide)

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[Butan]

While NG was trying to get to a place, some certain amount of people tried to stop APCs being aggressive (a lot of people were drunk, but that's not strange for such day as it's a kind of ritual to drink some vodka on 9th of May as a day of Victory).

That man was drunk too :

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die them

[DaveUKR]

That man was drunk too :

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die them

Typical Butan. Nice logic comparing a military parade to an ATO.

[Grumbs]

A smarter question would be: if I have to choose between a world with 1 global superpower and 2+, I would choose 2+.

USA cant be trusted with the fate of the planet (noone is except if they manage to conquer everything :d), and I will welcome the day Russia becomes great again mostly because we need an opposition to imperialism, even if its just a second imperialism, because thats always better than a kind of shady world dictatorship.

Then ofc I would also prefer there is no few uber-OP nations just choosing the destiny of everyone else, but its a thing of our time 

New cold war might get us to finally colonise space. Between Russia now talking about making a moon base by 2025, india with their cheap mission to mars, China's space program..maybe USA will pump some funds into Nasa again

[DonNicko]

That's how media in your country shows the situation. Yes, Ukrainians are so stupid nаzis that they need to provoke even in such days. OH SHIT, WE MUST KILL THEM ALL, HAIL TO GREAT PUTIN.
Funny though how they forget or even turn in inside out: pro-Russian separatists (armed, around 60) tried to capture the main police building in the city. National Guard of Ukraine (which is under Police jurisdiction and not Army) got called to defend the building. Also a chief of DAI (a kind of road/patrol police) got killed there by separatists that day. While NG was trying to get to a place, some certain amount of people tried to stop APCs being aggressive (a lot of people were drunk, but that's not strange for such day as it's a kind of ritual to drink some vodka on 9th of May as a day of Victory).

In this current situation I have double feelings. First of all, it's a pity that people die, no matter separatists or not and especially when they have no guns. But on the other hand, Ukrainians have a bitter experience with these "peaceful protesters" who block NG/army and take their guns. I'll show you one of curious videos which was used by Russian media as a proof of NG shooting at peaceful people. Just noticed one thing myself, that might be exclusive, just give me time to find it 

Edit: found it. And also it looks like I'm not the only one who noticed it 

Look at 12th second. Why would he need this? It's empty though, mb found or stole it somewhere.

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

About  main police building in the city was said that cheif of DAI Valerii Andryschuk ordered to militia to shoot in civils, but milita didn't obey to chief and made barricade in that building. Then batalion Dnepro atacked that building and burned it. Yes, I think there were armed opposition of Mariupol which shoot to the Ukranian army. About 20 oppositioners were killed, 1 from Ukranian army. But shooting in the civils I think is not a way to make a dialogue with the East. if you will listen to civils interviews, then it almost impossible now. I think from both sides Ukranian and Russian there is no objective information, I write here what says in russian tv and youtube. The violence shouldn't become covered by any motives. I think that russian send some special forces to Crimea to prevent the situation like on the East and Odessa. Thanks to Ukranian army they didn't started to shoot to civils and russian army in Crimea, because then it could be a war between two brother country. But I think that Crimea would made a refferendum even there wasn't any russian army. I think the federalization of the East is a bad thing, because this will almost ruine their economy, as turchinov said. I agree with that. But they need to stop to fight and start to speek with civils.
Dont you think Dave that this war is between Russia and USA and ukranians suffer because of it

[Tovi]

Dave, you still try to caricature. When a russian media talk about crimes from ukrainians militias you reply "Oh yes Ukrainians are all nazees and Putin is the good guy. Bullshit !"
Why not just admit that your country is under fascists militias control (even partially) ? If west ukrainians do not clean that plague, they will lead you to war.

[Molly]

I don't believe anything involving "aimed shooting at unarmed civilians" until I have seen proper proof for it.
Anything starting with that kind of stuff, I'll put in the area of utter bullshit until proven otherwise...

[DonNicko]

I don't believe anything involving "aimed shooting at unarmed civilians" until I have seen proper proof for it.
Anything starting with that kind of stuff, I'll put in the area of utter bullshit until proven otherwise...

there is on youtube but on russian language, also one of Russia Today journalist were wounded in stomach, so I think you will see it on RT