Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 625143 times)

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Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4440 on: June 28, 2014, 12:44:13 am »
+1
Well, I don't know where from you have got that thing, I can't find in my text anything connected with corruption, sheep or the will for strong hand. In my text I only tried to explain why I think our political system came to the current current crappy condition. And also why our legislative assembly is joke. It is joke 'cos our legislators is bunch of morons, whose suggestions are nothing but an over-populistic bullshit. And because they all are represent the same four parties (it would be appropriate to call them "fractions of shit" instead of "parties").
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I don't quite understand what's your point, but anyway I was speaking about the WAY of how democracy appeared in Russia. It's appeared in non natural way. I remember I was reading the memoirs of some members of "The Congress of people's deputies of Russia". And they were mentioned that none of them had any idea of what they should actually do. So most of their "congresses" were more like shit talk about anything but nothing in the end. And that's even funny 'cos at the same time it was the period in our history when "The Supreme Soviet of Russia" (which was the part of "The Congress of people's deputies of Russia") somehow was the last actually weighty legislative organ. But then our "grand democrat" Yeltzin just came and dispersed them with the tanks:
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Since then we have only one real power in our country - presidential power.

And as for Ukraine, I think that Putin is became a hostage situation. I mean, if you imagine for a second that tomorrow Putin will sign a decree, that the Russian armed forces must came to the aid of the Ukrainian armed forces and then they together will fight against the Donetsk and Lugans People's Republic... Then Putin would be found killed within five minutes after this decree. Because people here in Russia literally asking him to defend DNR and LNR rebels. And even now, when he is trying to demonstrate that he is not supporting them, some "patriots" already accuse him of "cowardice". So if now he will go against his own propaganda - people here in Russia will hate him with the passion. And the second thing - he obviously would be glad to destabilize Ukraine, because if Ukraine will succeed, and their life will be better than life in Russia, then, you know, his days as the president will end once and forever. He would be rather glad to hear something like this:

Finally some deep thoughts, here's a +. Thanks.

Offline Falka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4441 on: June 28, 2014, 09:03:45 am »
+1
Our pro-western oriented movements are extremely unpopular and marginalized at the current time. People hate them

So, I'm personally don't blame Putin, even though I'm personally dislike him in various aspects. I just realize that I live in the country where the pro-western forces not in favor.

people here in Russia literally asking him to defend DNR and LNR rebels.

So all in all noone is to "blame" for current direction in russian policy but russian people  :wink: not so surprising after reading opinions of ivani4 and some other folks  :P
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 09:09:31 am by Falka »
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Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4442 on: June 28, 2014, 08:04:00 pm »
-1
So all in all noone is to "blame" for current direction in russian policy but russian people  :wink: not so surprising after reading opinions of ivani4 and some other folks  :P

blame the Crusaders, the French and Germans, we still can not forgive them their campaigns, that's why we do not like Europeans   :P
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Offline LordBerenger

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4443 on: June 28, 2014, 08:13:26 pm »
+4
I nominate this thread for most retarded and most stupid thread of all time in CRPG forum's history.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4444 on: June 28, 2014, 08:16:39 pm »
+4
Oh look it's Berenger writing words again

Offline Thryn

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4445 on: June 28, 2014, 10:10:14 pm »
0
I nominate this thread for most retarded and most stupid thread of all time in CRPG forum's history.
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We may not love corrupt government, but we must love our country.

Offline LordBerenger

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4446 on: June 28, 2014, 10:27:42 pm »
+2
Oh look it's Berenger writing words again

Oh look it's Kafein again who thinks his opinions about a war that's not even about his own country matters.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4447 on: June 29, 2014, 12:39:06 am »
0
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Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4448 on: June 29, 2014, 06:18:20 am »
-1
Very good post Porthos, thanks!

The media element is always interesting. Also from western perspective. Way I see it it is a mostly a huge flock of sheep that is hard to turn around, and the political leadership can only makes moves inside their current perspective. This makes it so actual decisions takes a long time, because leaders must first turn and prepare the media, before they can implement changes.

To take a recent example:

In i.ex Syria, I'm pretty sure US intelligence have known for a very long time that the Rebels are now mostly crazy jihadists, and it would be better to support Assad. Problem is that they had already painted him black, and to turn the whole chemical weapons thing required a massive campaign and lots of confusion among US media.. "What are we supposed to think now??"

Same in Russia. The (Russian)media becomes involved to such a degree, that even if Putin don't think it's worth it to annex Donetsk, he will have to fight his own propaganda machine first.

Atm though, I think the Russian strategy is 2 sided. Time is on Putin's side, Ukraine is being punished for trying to leave the family, and Putin is intending to drain as much resources as possible from them. He wants to have Ukraine in a desperate position before talking/normalizing relations. IF the rebels would be more successful, he can also consider eventually annexing Donetsk, probably on the pretext of protecting civilians. Anyway, now he just gives them weapons and probably lots black ops+mercenaries..

The only problem with your analysis is that Obama and the US government don't control the media.  Putler controls his media.  He doesn't have to fight any propaganda machine.  He just tells them what to say.  The only danger for Putler is if the living conditions in Russia deteriorate too much.

Offline Mala

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4449 on: June 29, 2014, 08:32:19 am »
+1
The only problem with your analysis is that Obama and the US government don't control the media. ...

I would not use the word control, but they have great influence on the media.

Offline Macropus

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4450 on: June 29, 2014, 08:48:52 am »
0
He just tells them what to say.
Actually not, he just sends them an e-mail. Talking with every media about what they should say could get very tiresome really quick.

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4451 on: June 29, 2014, 09:26:18 am »
+1
I would not use the word control, but they have great influence on the media.

Of course they do. That is why whole bunch of leaked secret US materials were published on that very media. That's only logical... see?

P.S. Even if the above looks like a denial, I DO believe, that there is too much ties between media and government in the US, however - taking a wider view and encompassing whole "western" world - there are too many competing POV's on countries level, which translates into even more on media level. This competition is what I actually trust. I can almost vouch, that there will always be a german/french news outled, which will want to fuck up US as much as possible and in this strife, after consuming samples from multiple parties - once can make up his mind with so-so assurances. Whereas - comparing this situation with putlers russian media is not even close to being fair.

Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4452 on: June 29, 2014, 06:22:00 pm »
+1
I would not use the word control, but they have great influence on the media.

The only influence the government has on the media in the US is if the editors are like minded with the politicians.  Ie, liberal press figures will support liberal government policies and likewise for conservative press (fewer in number) and conservative administrations.

Offline Vovka

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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #4454 on: June 30, 2014, 11:56:11 am »
0
Errr, that looks like a WW1 museum piece?

(by which i mean it probably is)