Nerf ranged

[Rebelyell]

reduce ammo

xynox incoming wach out

[Tzar]

xynox incoming wach out

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[XyNox]

I am just enjoying the show ... no need to pee your pants. Now if you dont mind, proceed.

[Erzengel]

I have 54 hit points, 52 head armor and 65 body armor.

My shield doesn't protect me from ranged at all. Sometimes they can even shoot me directly from the front. Shots from the sides always hit, no matter how small the angle (or how wide my shield/how high my shield skill) is.

Archers can kill me with a single headshot and one bolt in the chest takes about 80% of my hit points (I am not exaggerating). Considering the insane number of ranged this is just a fucking joke.

Did I already mention the hordes of horse archers terrorizing EU_1?

Nerf ranged or they will kill the mod. The current state of the game is just extremly frustrating (especially battle). Balance never felt that bad to be honest. This is a melee-simulation which simply doesn't work properly if 1/3 - 1/2 of the players are using ranged classes. It is not fun if you have to hide the whole round from ranged only to wait for another delaying horse archer at the end...

Don't get me wrong, ranged is a part of the game and should be viable. But at the moment it is way too strong/tempting.

Oh and also finally nerf fucking Awlpikes. 

[San]

Let shielders be able to run while blocking after a while so they can flippin catch the ranged. Even with 10athletics, blocking+running forward and I'm as fast as a 4ath guy running without a block. Shield weight and movement penalties while blocking only lets them be good against ranged a small percentage of the time and only if the group has superior numbers. If you're a shielder in melee, you'll also get shot regardless, since you're slower and just one less future threat if ranged get a shot on you. Good shielders that are easy to recognize like Voester get targeted like hell while they aren't attacking ranged, too.

NA doesn't really have many great archers on at a time, but we sure do have a ton of xbows and throwers, much more mobile ranged classes.

[Rebelyell]

I have 54 hit points, 52 head armor and 65 body armor.

My shield doesn't protect me from ranged at all. Sometimes they can even shoot me directly from the front. Shots from the sides always hit, no matter how small the angle (or how wide my shield/how high my shield skill) is.

Archers can kill me with a single headshot and one bolt in the chest takes about 80% of my hit points (I am not exaggerating). Considering the insane number of ranged this is just a fucking joke.

Did I already mention the hordes of horse archers terrorizing EU_1?

Nerf ranged or they will kill the mod. The current state of the game is just extremly frustrating (especially battle). Balance never felt that bad to be honest. This is a melee-simulation which simply doesn't work properly if 1/3 - 1/2 of the players are using ranged classes. It is not fun if you have to hide the whole round from ranged only to wait for another delaying horse archer at the end...

Don't get me wrong, ranged is a part of the game and should be viable. But at the moment it is way too strong/tempting.

Oh and also finally nerf fucking Awlpikes. 

61body armor and steevee 3 shot me, but last shoot is like for 10% hp

8 if btw

[Gurnisson]

Will get moved to chamber of tears, probably! Only way to have fun on eu 1 is playing ranged yourself or make a cavalry build dedicated to bum-rush the enemy ranged.

[Leshma]

Won't be moved if we don't go full retard. I've stepped up by identifying the issue, don't expect it being solved anytime soon (I'm well aware of Paul's stance on melee-archery relations). But I'm fairly sure, given enough time this thread will grow and gain support because this will get only worse, not better. Until they get another nerf, they numbers again go back to manageable size and another circle closes.

But San is right, and as Apsod said on server: Major problem with archery is that there's nothing efficient against them. That's their strength. When they grow in numbers, they are unstoppable on all besides open plains maps.

Single archer, even high level one can be dealt with. Ten of high level archers working together can't be killed easily, if they can be killed at all. Ten of anything else don't get anywhere good bonus from teamwork as archers do. This is not about them being OP, dealing massive damage, being first on the scoreboard (silly change meant to act as fix to ranged, by discouraging players to play ranged classes). This is about number of ranged on the server at given time and when that number is too high as it is in every game mode last few days (since free respec), gameplay goes to shit for everyone (including ranged).

[San]

Nerfing ranged would really just make it less fun for them and overall won't change the grand scheme of things. We've already seen this happen time and time again.

I believe that increasing shielder movement (at least a run tier while blocking) won't make them demigods of destruction or anything like that, but I hope it would allow a smaller group of shielders to both pressure a larger group of ranged and allow non-shield reinforcements in the back to get some breathing room. It would be a buff to aggressive pushes instead of having a boring campfest. Right now, if there's enough ranged, they have too much leeway to target whoever they want without any pressure, making any sort of push near suicidal. Even if 1 archer can kite, that choice should be detrimental instead of beneficial to the group as a whole.

[Penitent]

I have 54 hit points, 52 head armor and 65 body armor.

My shield doesn't protect me from ranged at all. Sometimes they can even shoot me directly from the front. Shots from the sides always hit, no matter how small the angle (or how wide my shield/how high my shield skill) is.

Archers can kill me with a single headshot and one bolt in the chest takes about 80% of my hit points (I am not exaggerating). Considering the insane number of ranged this is just a fucking joke.

Did I already mention the hordes of horse archers terrorizing EU_1?

Nerf ranged or they will kill the mod. The current state of the game is just extremly frustrating (especially battle). Balance never felt that bad to be honest. This is a melee-simulation which simply doesn't work properly if 1/3 - 1/2 of the players are using ranged classes. It is not fun if you have to hide the whole round from ranged only to wait for another delaying horse archer at the end...

Don't get me wrong, ranged is a part of the game and should be viable. But at the moment it is way too strong/tempting.

Oh and also finally nerf fucking Awlpikes. 

I have 56 hp and wear about 70 body armor and 32 head armor.  I am a shielder.  I don't find ranged to be a problem at all.  My shield almost always protects me from any archer I'm aware of, whether they are in front of me or on the side.  A quick turn and some practice makes it easy to catch arrows.

The arrows that do hit me don't bother me too much.  They take about 25% of my hp most of the time.  Long range shots hurt less.  I basically shrug them off unless there is a headshot or I'm hit by a heavyer xbow.  I die from ranged plenty, but usually just lucky shots or sneak-shots.  If I'm aware of them I usually don't get bothered.  Hell, even just holding a shield up will make the archer shoot for a different target if one's available.

Arbalest (and perhaps H. Xbow I dont' know) do a hell of a lot of damage.  I've never had a bolt go through my H. Kite Shield yet though. 

[Erzengel]

I have 56 hp and wear about 70 body armor and 32 head armor.  I am a shielder.  I don't find ranged to be a problem at all.  My shield almost always protects me from any archer I'm aware of, whether they are in front of me or on the side.  A quick turn and some practice makes it easy to catch arrows.

The arrows that do hit me don't bother me too much.  They take about 25% of my hp most of the time.  Long range shots hurt less.  I basically shrug them off unless there is a headshot or I'm hit by a heavyer xbow.  I die from ranged plenty, but usually just lucky shots or sneak-shots.  If I'm aware of them I usually don't get bothered.  Hell, even just holding a shield up will make the archer shoot for a different target if one's available.

Arbalest (and perhaps H. Xbow I dont' know) do a hell of a lot of damage.  I've never had a bolt go through my H. Kite Shield yet though.

Of course a single archer or sometimes even two are not a huge threat for a shielder if he is fully aware of them. But what do you do against 3 ranged or even more (which isn't unlikely)? They will just move slightly to your sides and fuck you up. Most of the time you won't see all of them because they are almost everywhere... You can't even catch them in close combat because they will just run away if you get too close (and I have 9 athletics).

Have fun trying to rush that hill on which they are camping. Especially if there is some cav/melee that protect them. This "tactic" is just a complete nobrainer and very hard to counter.

There are so many ranged that you can't protec yourself properly. I get hit by random arrows alll the time. You would need an insane awareness to catch all the projectiles with your shield. You also can't fight in melee without getting shot because there is always a ranged player who just shoots into close combat (no matter how often he hits his team).

It is not fun if you lose 50% or more before you see your first melee fight...

Shielders (especially with high agility) should be the counter class for ranged. At the moment it is impossible to fulfill this role, though. Cavalry also isn't a real threat for ranged (especially on a hill or roof). So what can counter ranged?

Yep, only even more ranged... You get the point...

[kinngrimm]

i am still for quotas

fixate the amount/% of ranged, shielders ... whatever per server.
If someone cant log because of quota reached(info message, quota reached for XY, free quota for XYZ), he needs to switch to an alt and play him for a while and could try again later.

advatages:
+ no need to nerf anything into the ground
+ alts get more traction

disadvantages:
- need to switch between alts increased(if you see that as negativ)

[Thomek]

Quota system will not happen, have been suggested so many times. Leave that dead horse to rot.

What ranged needs is nerfs to keep the numbers down. They can easily take it as well, since archers and xbowers deal more damage than melee per hit. The cheapest kills you can get in c-rpg is by the xbow. Nothing needs a nerf more than that.

Logically, if you nerf ranged, cav needs a nerf as well. Maybe then finally c-rpg can be focused around melee mechanics again.

Nowadays, melee are squeezed between ranged and cav, and thats almost an unbearable place to be.

Anyway, Shik is defending ranged, and thats why nothing happens.

[Osiris]

I have 56 hp and wear about 70 body armor and 32 head armor.  I am a shielder.  I don't find ranged to be a problem at all.  My shield almost always protects me from any archer I'm aware of, whether they are in front of me or on the side.  A quick turn and some practice makes it easy to catch arrows.

The arrows that do hit me don't bother me too much.  They take about 25% of my hp most of the time.  Long range shots hurt less.  I basically shrug them off unless there is a headshot or I'm hit by a heavyer xbow.  I die from ranged plenty, but usually just lucky shots or sneak-shots.  If I'm aware of them I usually don't get bothered.  Hell, even just holding a shield up will make the archer shoot for a different target if one's available.

Arbalest (and perhaps H. Xbow I dont' know) do a hell of a lot of damage.  I've never had a bolt go through my H. Kite Shield yet though.

I sense a great difference in the ranged quantity/quality between NA and EU Might have to start playing some NA1

[kinngrimm]

Quota system will not happen, have been suggested so many times. Leave that dead horse to rot.

I don't think so.

i havent yet seen any legit argument against it. If you wouldnt count "devs dont have the time because they are occupied with other game".

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What ranged needs is nerfs to keep the numbers down. They can easily take it as well, since archers and xbowers deal more damage than melee per hit. The cheapest kills you can get in c-rpg is by the xbow. Nothing needs a nerf more than that.

Logically, if you nerf ranged, cav needs a nerf as well. Maybe then finally c-rpg can be focused around melee mechanics again.

Nowadays, melee are squeezed between ranged and cav, and thats almost an unbearable place to be.

Anyway, Shik is defending ranged, and thats why nothing happens.

I don't say that there wouldn't also be the need to tweak at ranged stats and gear, but If you wont want to nerf it into the ground to reach fewer numbers, "taking away interrupt effect , the shooting through shields effect" alone wont stagnate the ranged numbers, whereby those maybe quite ok changes. If you then also make the builds less effective(less wpf ...) fewer bolts/arrows, less dmg, then you get into an area where you drive away players who had been playing their characters for a long time and then may see themselves treated unfairly. If you introduce quotas, you have a "balancing" not "nerfing/buffing" tool. Get someone in charge of the % per server, he could change that on a weekly base, or we could get votes up in the forum where we could orientate at, but   you then would have less players not by nerf but by setting limits.