Can we fix some animations? (1h stab, 2h stab, Pole instaswing and thrust)

[Thomek]

IDK if this is possible, but I guess it is, since there are mods who add and modify animations to warband. Perhaps we need an expert in the field to do it well? Anyone know anyone or anything about animating for warband?

1h Stab.
Good that it was buffed from almost uselessness, but right now it has become a long range, highly damaging near-insta attack. I guess it is "balanced" to 2h and pole broken animations, but this doesn't make it any less of a pain in the ass. It's a tad too fast, imo.

2h stab.
What is there to say? IMO main problem is the duration of the attack that makes it abusable. You have to block down for a very long time to be sure not to get hit.

Insta-pole swing.
This is just as serious problem as the above if not more. You have very long, very high damage weapons like the glaive and GLA. It seems to me that if the ping difference is high enough, or the other player has his technique down, you cannot see the swing release until you are hit.

Other solutions to the problem that circumvent animation-fixing:

*Slow down the poles and 2h across the board. Especially the long ones.
*Nerf 1h stab damage
*Nerf 2h stab damage.

But having non-glitchy animations would really solve it the best way.

[Molly]

Prepare for the shitstorm and red lightsaber, Thomek

[Thomek]

Yeah, attacking everyone is a wise move..

It's just I feel c-rpg is often about those who can glitch, and those who can't atm.. Glitches should be fixed, but across the board, so it's fair for everyone.

[Fartface]

As far as I know, Greatswords had a small dmg and speed nerf just a few months ago, and some of the poleaxes had a small dmg nerf, too.

So, don't mess up with the stats of ANY weapons please anymore for gods sake.

I agree that ALL stab animations are kind of broken though at the moment.

So, 1h and pole need their super fast insta hit removed, and 2h swords need a bit later and shorter connection time of the stab.

BTW, I am topping the score board for around 4 maps on EU1 right now, with my 18/18 lvl 29 1h/shield alt, mw italian sword and mighty 1h stab giev victory even over heavy lance cav, because, erm, the stab of the sword is longer than the lance stab 

A good lancer will outreach you, but you should not forget if his timing is off he still has the horses head sticking out by far so the differance between your stab and his is actualy quite low. Just depends on your vs his movement.

[BlueKnight]

So many things have been done so many times with the animations to fix broken stabs. They are already 99 times better than they were if you consider old times' super-underground-stab and unnatural rotation etc. We should be thankful to devs for that.

Every time the stab attack was getting changed people were failing for 2 days with that attack, but after some time they were using it again like if nothing happened. People adjust to dynamic game changes and that's normal, therefore afaik unless we have different engine, we can't fix the stab problem so that it's unabusable.


Solution: wait for BG and see how devs handle this.

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Also pierce damage op

[Thomek]

I don't want to wait for BG to fix stuff like this. It's healthy for BG if c-rpg is still alive and breathing when BG launches, so I'm pushing for these changed.

The great question is how hard can it be, to fix these animations. Is there a lack of a decent animator?

What we should do is to simply get the best animator in the Warband modding community to look at it and fine tune it. Perhaps a mix of fine tuning animations as well as adjusting the speed of weapons.

I don't think there are big adjustments to be made, as the pole-swing is ALMOST visible, the 2h stab is ALMOST okay, and the 1h stab can be fixed and adjusted back just a little..

It's like adjusting little screws, not using a hammer here.. Small changes, and we are there.

[Paul]

Why don't we cut the chase and buff the katana instead?

[BlueKnight]

Small changes, and we are there.

There were already many many adjustments, however whining stays the same. Animations have been changed many times already (2h animations a few times and recently 1h animations, so that 1h seems more adjusted to it's damage dealing period or sth. (I don't know lol)).

I may be wrong because I don't know anything about how warband works, but I recall seeing it on forum somewhere that stabs are broken partially because of the game engine.

[Haze_The_Hobo]

Add pole stab spam to the list.

[sF_Guardian]

I do not agree with slowing down the weapons speed across the board, gameplay is sluggish enough already.
The rest of the suggestions seems fine to me.

[Grumbs]

As 3x melee guy I use all the different weapons now

1 hand stab is too quick, I can stab from what feels like actually inside the enemies model with Rondel and insta hit. Its not just the Rondel though, the stabs are too long and quick with good damage
2 hand stab has high damage for too long. If you get stabbed in the last part of the animation you should mostly just get the normal weapon stun rather than high damage. I don't think it should just glance though
The thing to remember with poles is that without the good stab a lot of the weapons will become obsolete. The swinging poles get awful stab damage and the stabbing poles either get no swings or really bad swing damage. This is why poles need to have a better stab than any other class in the game. 2 handers with stab have great swing animations as well as a decent stab damage/animation. 1 handers with a stab get the long right swing/overhead and all round very quick attacks at short-medium range, in addition to having a shield which deflects ranged hits and blocks multiple attack directions at once

[Gurnisson]

*Slow down the poles and 2h across the board. Especially the long ones.
*Nerf 1h stab damage
*Nerf 2h stab damage.

* The slow ones were already slowed down with a few points a few patches ago. People hate more on the likes of longsword, miaodao and long axe than the long, slow ones nowadays, from my experience. I don't see a reason to slow the slow ones even further.
* They just nerfed 1h stab damage last patch. Now that 1h nudge don't give a free hit anymore, the high speed and high damage stabs are not that dangerous. They still have the rather low reach (the most hard-hitting ones).
* Only problem with the 2h stab is how long it stays active. The high length is okay because of the slower speed and the lower damage compared to the faster 1h and polearm stabs.

Revert turn-nerf and remove the earlier active stab mechanics is my opinion. While it looked somewhat sillier, all stabs had to be turned a bit to not bounce, which meant no literally instant stabs.

[Prpavi]

slow them down a bit, shorten the duration, nerf pierce damage a bit.

have no idea how to achieve this techically but if it could be done would make this mod a happier place.

[Leshma]

Well, stabs are a bit silly all over the board but that's kinda realistic... swings are fine. You obviously haven't used DGS recently, but it's A LOT slower than it used to be in the good old glory days. Won't touch it ever again.

GLA is decent weapon but that's all. One handers are easy mode if you ask me, especially stabby ones (I like to stab) but I see many shielders spamming those fast one handers without stab. But truth to be told, blunt one handers are hell to fight against because knockdown rate on all blunt weapons with a proper build is way too high. Two handers more often kill from one hit so it seems one handers have higher knockdown rate, but it's the same.

All that said, I think weapons are balanced. Could be better but not much better. Some things will never change. For example, even though stabs are quite powerful these days (they were always powerful but people didn't use them as much), something ancient as spamitar is still one of the deadliest weapons you can use.

Katana is also quite powerful (not saying this because I lost to RasFrenzY). In DTV I have a really hard time blocking Katana thrust from Weeaboos even though anticipate it. If you want to see how some weapons can be spammed, play DTV a bit. Bots can spam faster than most players around here.

Only thing I would "nerf" is spinning. Hate it and everyone is doing it these days. Turn rate nerf didn't do jack shit, it should be reverted. But we badly need spin speed to become dependable on AGI stat because currently this is just silly. Every player has heard that high mouse sensitivity is a way to go and adjusted to it. Now everyone (especially shielders) spin around like ballerinas most of the time.

[Thomek]

* The slow ones were already slowed down with a few points a few patches ago. People hate more on the likes of longsword, miaodao and long axe than the long, slow ones nowadays, from my experience. I don't see a reason to slow the slow ones even further.
* They just nerfed 1h stab damage last patch. Now that 1h nudge don't give a free hit anymore, the high speed and high damage stabs are not that dangerous. They still have the rather low reach (the most hard-hitting ones).
* Only problem with the 2h stab is how long it stays active. The high length is okay because of the slower speed and the lower damage compared to the faster 1h and polearm stabs.

Revert turn-nerf and remove the earlier active stab mechanics is my opinion. While it looked somewhat sillier, all stabs had to be turned a bit to not bounce, which meant no literally instant stabs.

I agree turn nerf took away some rather cool and fancy moves, and the old lolstab required a little skill to pull off..  There's a price though and that is more wild spamming of long ass weapons, more hiltslashing. Generally. More turnrate benefits longer weapons, because they can threaten and hit a huge area around them faster.  (pi x r2)

But this has always been the case..

Off topic:

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From my personal perspective, perhaps as a katana user..    Paul!

Long weapons have always been overpowered in battle situations, because they never had to pay the logical price, which is speed. GS and Long heavy polearms should be slow as fuck compared to shorter 2h and pole. 1st of all it looks unnatural and breaks a common physics to swing something that huge that fast, secondly, it takes away viability from shorter weapons and reduces variety. There's simply no point in taking anything else than a huge axe or 2h.

If you want to swing fast you can either go short and heavy, or long, light  and stabby. But whatever.. That stuff ain't gonna change at this point anyway. In other words, nerf everything else, buff katana.