[BAN] griefing/kickpolling/admin abuse

[Biggie_Smaxx]

1. Name of your character involved
IRK_Donny

2. Name of offending character(s)
Lady_Alexandra_HREr
Admins: Patoson, Dollface

3. Time and server, as accurately as possible
today, 06.54pm UTC+1, Server EU7 DTV

4. Written description of what happened, the whole story. Also what happened before and after.
First i said one time that the people pls stop to use smokebombs in fight, because u cant the see the enemy or only rarely. Few minutes later some other player say the same, situation relaxed atm. Then a discussion started between IRK_Darko (not me) and some other players (e.g. Lady_Alexandra). The Nub was, that they meant that using smokebombs is griefing/trolling/whatever and the players should stop it. Darko asked for the rule why using smokebombs should be griefing. So much accusations but no proofs or usefull answers.

Main argument, why it is allowed in my opinion is the following: The Devs implemented smokebombs, the bombs do what they do (and are build for) and Darko didnt throw the bombs in fights with any intention. Just at start 2, max 3 Players, thrown their smokebombs. For sure there are enough arguments to remove smokebombs, but i told multiple times in chat, that they dont discuss and cry in ingame chat instead of posting in forum. Then all Admins/Devs see the problem and if enough player have a problem with it, i am sure they will remove the bombs. But they arent disallowed atm.

Now Dollface got active in the chat and he vicariously threatened to ban darko for smokebombing. But that was just the top of the ridiculous discussion, because Darko and me didnt see anything reason to accept his opinion and after minutes of discussion his answer to darkos question (show me the rule pls) was "griefing". So for him its griefing to use smokebombs... basically? really? Cmon, please. If u use smokebombs, it is no griefing. And darko and me see no reason to get limited in the personal liberty to do what u want (if its not disallowed).
Because the Admins have the same opinions like themselves, some other players got a big mouth and started to urge for kickpolling without; without any reason at the beginning, because the discussion was just started. I said to dollface he should kick the poller, because of this. AFAIR: First he didnt do anything and at poll number 2 i asked again and he said reason is griefing (maybe it happened already at poll 1). But the kickpolling person didnt have to say to dollface what the reason is. The top ist, that Patoson used kickpolling (overall 3rd time), to kick Darko... with ~54%
But no admin had enough balls for kicking darko by own power, they only hided behind the mass of players with their opinion. One interesting dialog was like this.
dialog (analogous):
Donny: (to Darko) "just ignore it"
Dollface: "It isnt clever to ignore an admin / his instructions"
Donny: "If the admin dont know the rules [or what is right and not] its clever to follow the rules."
Dollface :(some later after talking to Darko) "enjoy the ban if you furthermore break the rules"
Donny: "Enjoy to get reported to devs and lose adminrights, cause of banning a player for using smokebombs..."

Sorry its very hard for me to tell in english, it would be the best somebody just read the chat log. If u have some questions just ask the involved people then for specific infos.

5. Why you think the offender did what he did.*
Because the admins cant bear the fact, that normal players want to correct him, because he is the admin and automatically is in right... idk^^

6. Multiple Screenshots
Last and Third Kickpoll against Darko: http://www.myimg.de/?img=Unbenannt0e782.jpg
Discussion started: http://abload.de/img/crpg_beta2013-11-27186bukv.jpg

7. Names of players who witnessed what happened.**
IRK_Darko
Admins: Patoson, Dollface

[Patoson]

First of all, I'm not an admin. Second, Darko was throwing smoke bombs at teammates fighting - one of those was between me and the bots I was fighting.

Smoke bombs kill performance for most players and it doesn't help, especially if you throw them at teammates fighting. It blocks the view and fps go down.

We asked politely and everything turned into an argument where Darko said he wasn't affected by the bombs, so the rest of the team wasn't his problem. If polls didn't succeed until the third, it's probably because mine was the only poll that was made at the start of a round without interfering anyone fighting (polls in the middle of a round are usually denied).

[Biggie_Smaxx]

First of all, I'm not an admin. Second, Darko was throwing smoke bombs at teammates fighting - one of those was between me and the bots I was fighting.

Ok, then i may mistake you for tydeus or whoever, sry but wayne now. Darko mostly thrown the bombs at the beginning, before the spawncounter from the bots where over. And if one or 2 smokebombs really from darko or every other player explode in the middle of the field, its not the end of the world. But EVEN if u are right. Dollface didnt kick him, maybe he knew that he have no really proof for any action. And if you would tell me i should stop throwing smokebombs i would just ask me why and what eligibility u have to disallow this... that there are some drawbacks, isnt the point. The point is, that the discussion processed to an accusation, that it is self-evident to stop using smokebombs, what makes no sense.

Smoke bombs kill performance for most players and it doesn't help, especially if you throw them at teammates fighting. It blocks the view and fps go down.

i can repeat it (like another player on the server) how much i want, everytime this argument will be used it seems.
Deactivate "particle system" in warband. If People have perfomance problems, maybe they have to set up their warband config?! Really, this thing about the particles nearly know everybody. In Nordinvasion the whole community know about it, dont say me here nobody knows about it.

We asked politely and everything turned into an argument where Darko said he wasn't affected by the bombs, so the rest of the team wasn't his problem. If polls didn't succeed until the third, it's probably because mine was the only poll that was made at the start of a round without interfering anyone fighting (polls in the middle of a round are usually denied).

I just dont see a reason to build a mob by discussion and instigate to vote yes at the kickpoll. (AFAIK the polls are finished like this: 42% 50% 54%)
But u cant punish somebody for using a legally item. Smokebombs are build to make smoke. In my opinion there are useless and the devs should delete this item, but atm they are component of the gameplay and u have to deal with it. More people intervene in this discussion and you all obsessed about this smokebomb-thing. There are many arguments to delete this item, but no arguments to operate like this on the gameserver and kick or ban darko (which somebody better read in the logs).
Building a mob and instigate which is griefing for me, this kickpolling without reason and dollface, who more established his own justice as its clarified in the rules and tolerate/support the others behaviour (admin abuse), are the three things i already named in the Threadtitle.

[Fips]

So you want Lady Alexandra banned and posted Screenshots of Patoson "poll abusing" and...ehm...dollface doing his job by kicking a random guy you didn't even mention in your text? Lol.

About the smokebombs on dtv: There are no specific rules for dtv now, so there is always Common Sense Rule. Which is Rule Nr.1 for a reason and here's why Smokebombs are griefing on dtv: There are NO enemies that are effected by this. The only one you can grief with the smokebombs are your teammates. Noone cares if you throw them on the ground in the beginning of the round, but throwing them into your teammates while fighting is just as bad as nudging them midfight or whatever.

Noone gets forced to turn down their graphics just because someone decides to be an asshat. I guess we can all agree that it's better to get rid of the asshat that is griefing the players that use particle effects? Yes? Yes!

[karasu]

I'm pulling the logs and pasting here, and I'm only doing to embarrass you, because I was very understanding, lenient and patient with you folks today. I now see it was a bad call.

[18:56:47] chat,,Patoson,team,stop throwing those smoke bombs please
[18:56:52] chat,,DO_Batja,team,no
[18:57:06] chat,,DO_Batja,team,Ich Thrower
[18:57:11] msg,[ADMIN][Dollface] Yes. It breaks most of the PC performance of most players. Stop it.
[18:57:21] chat,,DO_Batja,team,no
[18:57:31] chat,,DO_Batja,team,no
[18:57:33] chat,,OT_Hochmeister,team,why you can buy it then ???
[18:57:36] chat,,DO_Batja,team,хахааха
[18:57:42] chat,,DO_Batja,team,ja ja ja
[18:57:43] chat,,IRK_Donny,team,if it break perfomance they have to deactivate particle system
[18:58:03] chat,,Dollface,team,We're not asking you to stop being a douche, only to be nice to other players.
[18:58:03] chat,,Patoson,team,the flambard can be purchased as well and you can be banned for using it cos it's invisible. You can also buy construction materials or siege shield but cant use it here
[18:58:08] chat,,Patoson,team,buying does not mean using xD
[18:58:12] chat,,IRK_Donny,team,but i really suck if throw this bombs into the fight
[18:58:39] chat,,OT_Hochmeister,team,ehat??? for using alllowed equipment :DDDD
[18:59:16] chat,,Dollface,team,potato explained you the reason. deal with it
[19:00:12] chat,,Dollface,team,stop spaming smoke bombs then, use a normal weapon, even if a scithe
[19:00:21] chat,,OT_Hochmeister,team,for shooting in mele
[19:00:24] chat,,IRK_Darko,team,why?
[19:00:50] chat,,Patoson,team,because 1- it doesnt help if you are fighting and suddenly smoke appears and u cant see anything; 2- your fps go down cos of it
[19:01:03] chat,,IRK_Darko,team,my fps not
[19:01:09] chat,,Patoson,team,i dont care
[19:01:10] chat,,Lady_Alexandra_HREr,team,admins should stop wasting time on warning people. Just kick them and it'll be very clear
[19:01:17] chat,,Patoson,team,what a selfish argument lol
[19:01:19] chat,,Dollface,team,it's what I do
[19:01:32] chat,,Dollface,team,I embrace forum drama as a shield
[19:01:33] chat,,Dollface,team,lol
[19:02:18] chat,,IRK_Donny,team,lol guys, DONT cry at the game server go cry in the forum if the smokebombs suck
[19:04:00] chat,,IRK_Darko,team,if I understand right, you admins will interdict me to use items?
[19:04:22] chat,,Dollface,team,No, we embrace the usage of common sense when regarding bugged items.
[19:04:26] chat,,Dollface,team,smoke bomb is a bugged item.
[19:04:32] chat,,IRK_Darko,team,its not bugged
[19:04:35] chat,,IRK_Donny,team,just ignore darko
[19:04:39] chat,,GTX_Zeh_Pole,team,Ur trusting peoples common sense?
[19:04:40] chat,,IRK_Darko,team,its in the game and its usable
[19:04:40] chat,,Patoson,team,no, you are bugged
[19:04:44] chat,,GTX_Zeh_Pole,team,Well thats your first mistake
[19:05:01] chat,,Dollface,team,Not smart to ignore an admin warning. Specially when he's being polite and all.
[19:05:22] chat,,IRK_Donny,team,its clever if the admin dont know what is allowed
[19:05:24] chat,,Lady_Alexandra_HREr,team,this coversation is more boring then my exam history...
[19:05:27] chat,,IRK_Donny,team,just my opinion
[19:05:41] chat,,_Tam_,team,Why u need to discuss Darko? Smokebombs are useless anyway, atleast in DTV
[19:05:52] chat,,Dollface,team,thats the diference between an opinion and a rule.
[19:05:59] chat,,IRK_Darko,team,useless but dont forbidden
[19:06:12] chat,,IRK_Darko,team,part of the game
[19:06:16] chat,,_Tam_,team,Useless, makes you lose more gold, probably, better dont use it
[19:06:25] chat,,Patoson,team,we are asking you nicely to stop using them bcause it's not good for us, and you're making a drama out of it
[19:06:40] chat,,IRK_Darko,team,I want see the rule for it^^
[19:06:55] chat,,Dollface,team,feel free to, we advise it
[19:07:00] chat,,GTX_Zeh_Pole,team,Dollface, who is your main?
[19:07:05] chat,,Patoson,team,cooties
[19:07:05] chat,,Dollface,team,karasu
[19:07:05] chat,,IRK_Darko,team,oh I forgot, admins make rules like they want right?
[19:07:07] chat,,Patoson,team,:D
[19:07:08] chat,,IRK_Donny,team,its stupid that u discuss about if u can buy and use this item. fact
[19:07:15] chat,,GTX_Zeh_Pole,team,Oh
[19:07:19] chat,,Dollface,team,go for it then
[19:07:24] chat,,Dollface,team,buy a flambard while at it
[19:07:26] chat,,Dollface,team,enjoy your ban afte
[19:08:12] chat,,IRK_Donny,team,enjoy that u not longer being an admin if we report u to the devs for ban cause of smokebombs
[19:08:14] chat,,Dollface,team,sometimes I think we should all be nuffens
[19:08:18] chat,,Patoson,team,QQ
[19:08:27] chat,,_Tam_,team,Who u even are Donny lol
[19:09:03] chat,,_Tam_,team,Finally just be silent, you didnt used smoke bombs for rounds, now, see, you can play without them

Good read: http://forum.melee.org/announcements/official-server-rules/

The nerve on some people... Really.

[Biggie_Smaxx]

So you want Lady Alexandra banned and posted Screenshots of Patoson "poll abusing" and...ehm...dollface doing his job by kicking a random guy you didn't even mention in your text? Lol.

very funny.

No one gets forced to turn down their graphics just because someone decides to be an asshat. I guess we can all agree that it's better to get rid of the asshat that is griefing the players that use particle effects? Yes? Yes!

I dont need to tell you that you are prejudiced, cause of your personal relation to Darko... So i guess you let people decide for themselves.
And no one gets forced to change items just because someone is to stupid/new/lazy to setup is warband config, a matter of principle or not...

But next time if i dont like somebody else playstyle i just say  "my FPS go down cause of your stupid weaboo armor, please buy another one", start 10 kickpolls and say its griefing too, lol....

[Tydeus]

I was in irc while this was going on. After listening for a bit, I decided to get on EU_7 and maybe give karasu a hand, here's my conclusion.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Afina]

smoke bombs. smoking shit. enough to write this crap. you want to remove the bomb ilivinovnyh. Determined dude
http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/smoke-bomb-(suck-bomb)/
I think Darko is initiated. and prevention have to do it alone, but other Leave alone