Author Topic: Thoughts on Religion and the State  (Read 24927 times)

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Offline Kafein

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #180 on: November 27, 2013, 11:48:43 am »
+1
Actually it's the other way around, people don't like religion because most of the time it condemns their immoral ways.

And where is the evidence that religious people are in any way shape or form "less immoral" than people that are not religious ?

Offline kinngrimm

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #181 on: November 27, 2013, 12:42:56 pm »
0
So what your saying is you'd give up your immoral ways if their was a heaven, but since there isn't you'll keep doing it.
i havent seen him saying that, Xant just didnt respond on a, from my point of view, insulting implication from you.

Argument is still valid since you are saying the reason you won't give up your immoral ways is because there is no heaven meaning you won't accept the religion because it's condemning your immoral ways and you want to keep them.
How about christians choose not being judged in this life with a chance there is no judgment afterwards by that having a free path at everything? That seems pretty much to be your argument the other way round. I think i will use that as base paradigma from now on when reading your posts.

I'll give you a little credit though it does seem a bit ridiculous, because who wants to be accountable for doing bad things.
qed

That's Catholicism, what they're doing is not right and it's just another way for man to take advantage of other men.
While i wouldnt judge catholicism solely based by actions of priests who take advatage of childs, i do judge catholicism by how they judge themselves or ignor to judge those formentioned priest, instead of excumunicating them and leave it to state authorities, they only relocate them and try to treat these cases silently. I judge catholisim by their doctrins, by their past and current actions as a church. That all still is not always the same as the religion and the believes of catholicism, there are many things to differentiat.

Like the Crusades and blah blah blah. No man can make another man's sins "go away" since the priest is just as much a sinner.
Every man for his own sanity, will find away or not, in his lifetime to live with what he has done. Thats how brains work, brains will always try to see onceself as good person, if that isnt possible, the brain will have problems working normally. Some can blend out their misdeeds, rectify them, ignore them or justify them, in the end but people who are doing bad things(if they have also some intelligence ^^) will suffer because of that in their lifetime. Brains who work differently to that are normaly called sociological psychopaths(could be wrong about the term here but that srpang to mind ^^). Is this a fact? Well from what i have learned and experienced in my life sofar, yes.

I believe in Christianity and I study Creationism but i'm no scholar on the subject.
You are entitled to that, as are others to believe in the flying Spagetthi Mosnter, Lochness Monster, Tooth fairies, ... any type of story or concept which makes you feel better and gets you through the day. Just don't expect others to.

Creationism ...
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Offline Yazid

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #182 on: November 27, 2013, 01:36:43 pm »
+1
Ya'll austistic. I think that's the only explanation.

Offline Xant

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #183 on: November 27, 2013, 01:46:08 pm »
+2
Austistics
A variation of statistics in which all figures are made by an omnipotent super being who resides over the two parallel universes.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #184 on: November 27, 2013, 05:51:21 pm »
+2
Ya'll austistic. I think that's the only explanation.

Coming from someone who wrote the nonsensical word salad above, this statement is particularly ironic. Orientalist fucking bullshit. Just because something is exotic does not make it untouchable ancient wisdom. China is one of the most biggoted, racist and nationalist places in the entire world, how does that fit in with your "This is the ONE TRUE PHILOSOPHY, rest of the world is crap" bullshit? Paradoxical statements being superificially clever but ultimately just ridiculous nonsense, OH BOY THIS IS GONNA CHANGE THE WORLD. To seek light, go into the dark. To reach wisdom, know ignorance. Zomg so deep. Closest to the way our world works? What world are you living in, exactly?
And there's the obligatory "This is way too deep for the MAINSTREAM brah, only real hipsters in the know ever gonna accept this". Which kind of clashes with your previous assurances that religions are all going to magically reform into this fantastic thing, because it is obviously so true that the only progress to be made is in that direction.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 05:55:02 pm by Oberyn »
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Offline Siiem

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #185 on: November 27, 2013, 06:01:33 pm »
0
I think this will be fitting here. To show the struggle in imagery!


This is certainly what it's all about for the religious, love, struggle, hardship and tenacity. But most importantly homo-erotic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=K0URt7dQTxI#t=148

Offline Kafein

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #186 on: November 27, 2013, 06:54:11 pm »
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Play on words is not argumentation and will never amount to anything but pretentious-looking gibberish.


Hence why I never ever listen to liberal arts majors, or whatever is the english word to describe those people.

Offline Siiem

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #187 on: November 27, 2013, 07:42:04 pm »
+1
Hence why I never ever listen to liberal arts majors, or whatever is the english word to describe those people.

The french?

Offline Kalam

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #188 on: November 27, 2013, 08:07:17 pm »
+1
Play on words is not argumentation and will never amount to anything but pretentious-looking gibberish.


Hence why I never ever listen to liberal arts majors, or whatever is the english word to describe those people.

Considering that logical debate remains the child of philosophy, and philosophy is often under the liberal arts, that's kind of silly. Unless, of course, you accept nothing but mathematical logic- in which case, there are still some things to trip you up.

@Jarold: What is defined as immoral by religions is often immoral to someone who isn't, though what is immoral to secularists is often immoral to those in religions.
If it's something that hurts a society, like murder, then we can often (when is killing another person justified?) agree on that. If it doesn't hurt society, like, you know, homosexuality, I'm not sure how that's immoral to anyone outside of a religious context.

Offline EponiCo

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #189 on: November 27, 2013, 08:10:33 pm »
0
Uh, like stoning people to death for ridiculous reasons? Limiting freedom of speech? Murdering people because God said so? Limiting freedom in general?

There's a large ammount of Christians (or Muslims for that matter) who neither partake in nor like those things. There's also enough atheists who murder or try to force people to do what they want.
So where's the difference? That's rather a question of the wrong beliefs (in both cases) or not even related at all (I guess 90% of murders happen for purely mundane reasons like money or being pissed at your wife leaving you).

Offline Kafein

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #190 on: November 27, 2013, 09:15:16 pm »
0
The french?

I would be tempted to say yes as among all the cultures I know, the French are so far the worst in that regard.

Considering that logical debate remains the child of philosophy, and philosophy is often under the liberal arts, that's kind of silly. Unless, of course, you accept nothing but mathematical logic- in which case, there are still some things to trip you up.

What kind of logic is not mathematical logic ? Philosophy is math sans rigor. Both "philosophical problems" and "philosophical solutions" tend to rely on language misuse. I would even go as far as challenging you to find an example of actual logic being used to "solve" a "philosophical problem". There is no language misuse in math, and in some way there is no problem in math, as everything derived from correct premisses will be correct by construction (here logic and math is pretty much the same thing). The existence of unintuitive properties in higher-order logic such as the indecidability of some problems (strongly linked with the paradox you mentioned) is only a problem if you really want a consistent set of axioms from which a computer could derive all mathematic truths that exist with this set of axioms. I mean, it only destroyed mathematics for a couple of years after Godel's famous proof of the incompleteness of arithmetics. Turing together with several others fixed it with decidability theory.

Offline Tore

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #191 on: November 27, 2013, 10:06:58 pm »
0

Offline Herkkutatti666

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #192 on: November 27, 2013, 10:12:10 pm »
0
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #193 on: November 27, 2013, 10:22:17 pm »
0
when is killing another person justified?

Has obviously never seen Dexter
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Offline Jarold

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Re: Thoughts on Religion and the State
« Reply #194 on: November 27, 2013, 11:59:22 pm »
-1
Creationism ...
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I have looked into evolution and I can't even understand why it's in textbooks these days. It's not even a law, just a theory it's never been proven. Evolution can't be studied by the scientific method of testing over and over again with the human senses. It doesn't do the theory of evolution much credit either with all the fake fossils they have tried to make their theory a law. I could go all day on this but it's getting off topic. If you want I can give more facts about evolution not making sense.



And where is the evidence that religious people are in any way shape or form "less immoral" than people that are not religious ?

Who said that? Religious people are just more accepting that their immoral and will do something about that. They know their just as immoral as everyone else. Unless of course your some religious fanatic who makes everyone who is religious look bad.

How about christians choose not being judged in this life with a chance there is no judgment afterwards by that having a free path at everything? That seems pretty much to be your argument the other way round. I think i will use that as base paradigma from now on when reading your posts.

Actually Christians now they are judged in this life and whatever comes next, they don't doubt it or else you aren't really a believer in your own fath. We are judged by the people around us and by God. So it's actually the least free path to go down.