Alright. That's one way of circumventing the question. Long as it works for you, there you go.
Its kind of an ego problem really. This is why buddhists and others probably don't struggle with the question as much as those aren't. If one believes they are part of the whole, then the ego is simply an illusion and the idea that you need to justify your own life is meaningless since "you" don't really exist.
I don't know if that was completely accurate when it comes to buddhism and other beliefs in which the ego is an illusion but nihilism is far less an issue then when one believes you are a part of the whole rather than separate from everything. Interacting still with your surroundings and so forth but a separate unit from the whole.
I will admit ignorance on buddhism and ego illusion beliefs. I just know from secondhand. Dunno if that's where you're coming from or not though. I may have misread you completely lol.
I earlier on described how i see cause and effect in combination with rebirth. This for me is essential to my approach now in life. It is not so much to give a meaning to my life or that my life has a meaning, but that my life has deffinetly an effect. Within this discourse here we bounced around our imprints of reality, how we see things. I use for quite a while the analogy of 2 or more universes having intersections, thereby finding common ground for mutual understanding. This didn't became clear with 'my own little universe', as it was only in my own little universe defined concept. I should have started back then like here with telling about that concept too. It is also essential to get an understanding between different religions, as many concepts within releigions are pretty much the same, they are just explained with different phrasings , different words, still but pointing to the very same thing.
Confucious was about the state. The Tao is long dead and gone, the Tao is like Jazz, if I have to explain to you what it is, you just don't get it. Blame the 17th Century Qin dynasty for the loss of Tao in East Asia and that shitty ying yang symbol you see at every McDojo.
as it is long dead, i guess noone could have explained it to you, so you learened it from scripture without anyone explaining, interpreting it to/for you? Was it like, aaaaaaaaaaah now i understand? If so, it is not me not being able to understand, but you not able to find the words to explain it understandably. Every system, every concept can be put in words, if you can't put it in words, it doesnt exist on a broader reality but merily 'in your own little universe'
I'm playing a game because I'm having fun. The question what's the point doesn't normally arise. But maybe I'm in a phase where the game isn't fun. I'm level 5, onehitted after the first 10 seconds, etc. And I'm keeping playing. Why? Because I believe by doing this I will reach a stage where I can have fun, or I'm proud of my achievement or whatever.
Abstract: If someone does anything it's either because he perceives it as worthwhile or because he thinks it's necessary to achieve something worthwhile. That's "what's the point". What's that thing you are trying to reach that you consider worthwhile? It's pretty clear this question can be recursed infinetely etc. etc. Well, some have said it's a silly question (when taken to far). I don't really see why. It's quite obviously extremely important to be able to answer the question for at least some recurses to be able to get through life (what's the point of getting up for work?).
There's also obviously points where the question isn't answered rationally but by hardcoding. Why have sex? Why do drugs? Why be liked by people? Because it feels good.
For other cases you have to posit an ultimate meaning. Saying the recursion never stops doesn't satisfy. And that's the rock bottom foundation of religion I think. There's a lot built around that, but what differenciates it from hobby fairytale club or political party is the belief that there is, in the end, a meaning to all of this and it's all fine. This belief isn't "logical knowledge" and the idea that noone actually understands this ultimate thing is part of it. The point is believing it's there.
Ofc. you can say that's silly thinking. But then what?
As I understand you what you're basically saying is there is no ultimate meaning. It's a delusion. The point of it all is, so to speak, that you feel good. Let's assume you are right.
But as soon as you're actually trying to convice someone of that it becomes ironic. Why are people believing it in the first place? Assuming obviously they are even able to decide what to believe in.
Since it makes them feel good. After all that's all there is. So while you're telling people the important thing is to feel good you're taking from them what makes them feel good (note, I'm not talking about religious organisations or such, just about that "ultimate meaning" thingy). So ... why? You can't say "I helped them overcome a delusion" or "the truth". What's even the point of not having delusions? Whether you feel good obviously. Which isn't the case. So, really, why?
I mean you could easily answer this conclusively by saying making people unhappy makes you happy and that'd be that. Religious people can excuse themselves by believing they have the ultimate truth. But I don't think apart from that there's much point promoting atheism, much less nihilism.
Obviously. But then maybe people have said the same thing about Laotse back then.
If someone believes in something which i wouldn't, i havent got a problem, i would go so far, most people wouldn't have one. For myself i found , that i also dont need to beleive in the mystical thing which ends in the kind of a need for a higher being which gave us meaning and our life meaning in the end when we die. I am quite satisfied with the concept, 'our life has an effect'. It may not give me quite the warm and fuzzy feeling as other inherent concepts of other religions which glorify to some extent 'the concept of meaning'. Still when you realise that everything you do, if only conversational like here, has an effect on pretty much everything else, whereby you not nessarily can concieve what that effect in the end would be, it makes you realise another concept shared by many religions, that 'you are a part of everything' sort of ^^. If someone now wants to put in here the quantum theories ... different systems describing similar or same concepts on a different level of understanding, qualitivly i wouldn't want to make a differentiation, just different levels of understanding, different wordings and phrases pointing into the same direction.
Making people unhappy, by stealing away their illsuions i would define as either ignorant, or if with intent sardistic, in both cases as bad under the line. It is people own right to do so to themselves
noone else should increase the speed in that, but everyone else if you see someone in crises should at least stop and listen and if asked may try and give his own perspective without patronizing and without trying to convert someone to his own believes. Not to do it in the wrong ways, aint always simple as everyone who made himself a picture of his reality and put some energy into finding his own way, came normaly to an endresult which gave himself stability and while that stability is what we may want to transfer to others, the realisation that our concepts which helped us, our believes may not be the fitting once for that individum who in front of us is struggling with life. The big religions found very comforting answers, appealing answers on questions without answers. The more someone is looking for those answers because of the struggles in his life illness, death, pain, loss, misstreatment, guilt ... the easier in my opinion it is for the big religions to convince. just remeber one thing, only something is written in a book, read a billion tiems and more, beleived by countless peopel over teh ages, that still is not proof of jack shit. It is believes, and if someone is not conviced by them, if they are not fitting to her/his life, that (wo)man still needs to keep looking and searching for something which explains the world to her/him.
If you come to the point when there is no religions on the planet, ...
...Still I think its better to live with religions then to fight them. When humankind has no need of them, they will vanish anyway.
true
And all the deluded fanatics wouldnt they just turn political fanatics instead of religious ones if they had to?
Remember bush more or less calling out for a crusade? The BS religiously colored pharsings of him, did create more jehadests. The concept of a drone war, without presidential oversight but targets solely choosen by the military and thereby often getting it very wrong does create even more. The disfunctional mainstream media following up with witchhunts on islam does not help either.
- a world full of people who aren't religious
- a world full of cynics ... or as cynics would say realists ^^ what a pleasent thought
