[Suggestion] Improve two handed bardiches

[Leshma]

Could you lower the swing damage or Bardiche and Great Bardiche a bit and give them weak polestab as a bonus feature? Nothing fancy, 20 pierce damage is fine but I personally wouldn't mind it a bit higher if possible.

[Tydeus]

Could you lower the swing damage or Bardiche and Great Bardiche a bit and give them weak polestab as a bonus feature? Nothing fancy, 20 pierce damage is fine but I personally wouldn't mind it a bit higher if possible.

Could give em pole thrust animations. I'll look into it.

[Gurnisson]

Could give em pole thrust animations. I'll look into it.

Please don't. 

I don't feel they need a (weak) thrust, they're better off as mighty slashers. I'd rather the polearm bardiches lost their thrusts and have all bardiches being scary slashing weapons, and the stats matching that role. Good length, very high damage, relatively slow speed and only 3 attacking directions.

[Tydeus]

Please don't. 

I don't feel they need a (weak) thrust, they're better off as mighty slashers. I'd rather the polearm bardiches lost their thrusts and have all bardiches being scary slashing weapons, and the stats matching that role. Good length, very high damage, relatively slow speed and only 3 attacking directions.

Another recent and interesting suggestion to the Bardiches, was to make them all unbalanced(both pole and 2h) while removing the unbalanced tag from some of the other axes.

I'm all for change, but I'm not sure every weapon needs to act the same as the next(have all the same swing directions).

[Lezard]

No thrust please. I like bardiches for their monsterous swing damage, looks, unbalanced tag AND their inability to thrust. Brute force over finesse! A weak thrust and less damage would make the bardiche less characteristic imo.

[MURDERTRON]

Is there any chance the Bardiche or 2h axes can get an overhead on horseback?  Seems like a stupid limitation if the Morningstar can do it.

[Leshma]

We already have twohanded axes (Great Axe, Persian Axes and those lower tier axes) that are great for slashing. Bardiches aren't exactly made for stabbing but you can use them as a hook to some degree. In certain situations, polearm thrust animation can represent that feature on some polearms and in this case, bardiches which use two handed animations.

I find weapons which have only swing animations extremely boring, and adding any kind of thrust makes them much more interesting to use and opens new tactical dimension. It saddens me that so many players prefer animation abuse over actual creativity in combat. For me, having more attack/block directions and more animations for every direction is never a bad thing. There are very few weapons in twohanded category that use polearm thrust animation, I find bardiches more suitable for this than other weapons.

Edit: I've just noticed that War Axe has cut damage on thrust. Well, that is okay as well. It's more about another optional attack than damage.

[Gurnisson]

I find weapons which have only swing animations extremely boring, and adding any kind of thrust makes them much more interesting to use and opens new tactical dimension. It saddens me that so many players prefer animation abuse over actual creativity in combat. For me, having more attack/block directions and more animations for every direction is never a bad thing. There are very few weapons in twohanded category that use polearm thrust animation, I find bardiches more suitable for this than other weapons.

Looks > Everything
(^)
That's the reason I very rarely use the most effective types of gear in this game.

Great Bardiche is the mightiest looking weapon in the game (imo), with the long and powerful blade, but seeing people thrust with it would just kill the feeling of the weapon for me. Wouldn't mind the regular bardiche having a thrust since it doesn't look as frightening, but it already plays its special part as a very good cavalry weapon.

[Jarlek]

Looks > Everything
(^)
That's the reason I very rarely use the most effective types of gear in this game.

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[Leshma]

Didn't expect such strong reactions to this suggestion, but it's good nevertheless. Didn't know so many people care about twohanded bardiches, that's great.

You know me, I'm all about finesse, speed and tactical approach. Strength builds swinging wildly, not caring about hits they recieve is something I highly dislike.

[MURDERTRON]

I'd also like to throw this hat in the ring...

Axes in general need to break shields in half the number of hits they currently do.  There is a very small playerbase that will use axes, because they are inferior to other weapons in pretty much every dimension.  I see no reason why a 2h or pole-type axe can't break a 2 difficulty shield in 1 hit, 2 if its masterwork.  A 3 difficulty shield should break in 2-3 hits.  Shield skill should help, but that bonus against shields we currently have is not nearly enough to outweigh the disadvantages of using an axe over something else.  Plus, with the buff to 1h stab, axe users really need to be tossed a bone here.

[Jarlek]

I'd also like to throw this hat in the ring...

Axes in general need to break shields in half the number of hits they currently do.  There is a very small playerbase that will use axes, because they are inferior to other weapons in pretty much every dimension.  I see no reason why a 2h or pole-type axe can't break a 2 difficulty shield in 1 hit, 2 if its masterwork.  A 3 difficulty shield should break in 2-3 hits.  Shield skill should help, but that bonus against shields we currently have is not nearly enough to outweigh the disadvantages of using an axe over something else.  Plus, with the buff to 1h stab, axe users really need to be tossed a bone here.

The fuck are you smoking? The double damage from "bonus against shields" isn't enough for you? The damage, that IIRC is before armour affects it, makes shields go down almost instantly?

Jesus, even the rondel my old friends with 11 shieldskill and bucklers rarely survive more than one hit from my bardiche (6 ps 145 wpf). Kinngrimm, the dreaded EU agi shielder with the "neverbreaking shield" loses his shield after 4-5 held bardiche attacks.

Fuck, even with my longsword it's surprising how fast a shield breaks.

Protip. That double damage against shields? That's also affected by held attack. So a held attack does basicly 3x the damage against the shield if you know what you are doing.

Axes don't need a buff. Players do.

[Grumbs]

How about reworking the "unbalanced" stat? The main purpose of unbalanced should be controlling the strength of mauls and Long Spear/pike, not for regular infantry weapons imo. I can play with unbalanced but I don't feel it adds much to the game, it just feels like I got +MS ping and artificially makes feints awkward. Its also is a big nerf to guys with higher ping since you can still feint when you have a low ping, it just feels less responsive

[Leshma]

Kinngrimm, the dreaded EU agi shielder with the "neverbreaking shield" loses his shield after 4-5 held bardiche attacks.

I can confirm this. Wth 20 STR and 6 PS I also need up to 5 hits with Bardiche/Great Bardiche to break kinngrimm's shield.

[pingpong]

NO, JUST NO STOP THIS EVERYTHING MUST HAVE OP STAB SHIT!

Its fine as it is filling the role of smash & hack weapon, no need for more lolstabs, if you dont like it, dont use it.