Author Topic: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)  (Read 49863 times)

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Offline Tydeus

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #315 on: November 11, 2013, 07:56:44 pm »
+2
Saul was the first to open my eyes, all credit to him. I just made a few functions based on this and came to some of my own conclusions. Take note that this doesn't include the strength/5 damage bonus which is actually quite good, too.
http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/wpf-and-damage/
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The higher your PS, the more wpf helps your damage. Getting a lot of wpf isn't as effective with very low PS. Wpf differences also seem to result in a larger change on the lower end, too (don't know exactly why for this).
As in +20 wpf when you have a low amount, will grant far more damage than +20 wpf when you already have a lot of wpf. Thus adding 18 wpf to archers(14% damage*PD rather than the 8% from PS) when they already have high wpf, amounts to such a small change in raw damage as mentioned in my previous post.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 08:12:06 pm by Tydeus »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #316 on: November 11, 2013, 07:57:45 pm »
0
I respecced for the first time today to do a rather small adjustment (removed throwing, got 3 more agi) and I will feel boned if we get free partial respecs.

I think that people should only be allowed to transfer a few skill points of their choice towards WM and completely respec their wpf allocation, not make attribute changes.

Offline Byrdi

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #317 on: November 11, 2013, 07:59:02 pm »
+1
Dear devs.

Yes, it is unfortunate that 1:1 hybrids are getting nerfed, but I feel like it is a fair price to pay for the way STR positive builds have been dominating the metagame the last few months.

Just letting you know that I (and probably a lot of other people) agree with this soon to come change, because it seems like this thread is drowning in complains.

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Offline Phew

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #318 on: November 11, 2013, 08:01:56 pm »
0
Also, I have a archer/1h/thrower alt, and this is pretty much going to screw up that character.

I really think there should be a way to respec Powerdraw and/or powerthrow so that hybrids like this can choose one or the other.

Anyone with power throw or power draw are pretty much the only people that don't get a "full" respec option out of this deal. The current proposition allows:
-anyone to switch from any kind of melee or melee hybrid to any other type of melee/melee hybrid
-most full melee can switch to full archery, xbow, throwing, shielder, or cav
-xbow can switch to just about anything they want

The people that will already be screwed the most by the change (melee/ranged hybrids) are about the only people that can't respec into a pure class.

Offline Jarl_Hangus

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #319 on: November 11, 2013, 08:07:35 pm »
+1
I feel like people have forgotten this. WPF increases have a greater affect on slow weapons, than fast ones.

So if you want to hit hard and on tincan we must go on agibuild like 18 24 instead of 24 18 with polearm ? The strength courbe must be the same as agi  for ps when you have more than 18 str if you really want to balance. If you specialise you must have an advantage i m agree, but if you want to hit on heavy armor, you  must be fuck without piercing weapon ? Actually even with 7 ps on heavy armor with cut dmg i glance a lot.  If you want to use 1h weapon doing dammage and don't be overspam or backpedal by 2h full agi or pole full agi with heavy armor, what's the plan ?

Btw polearm user can allready instastab in close range, i m talking about pike, something will be do about this ?

I play 1h cav since 3 years maybe, i m not the best but i can tell horse are really outmaneuver against people with more than 24 agi in light armor if you don't use an arabian. And with the new 1h stab who is the new anticav what 1h cav can expect ?

I think give back to horse their old maneuver stats will be a good things against the new agi mod who will be install to c-rpg. I can allready ear the" QQ, 1h cav is op blabla".



For the respect system, i have 21 18 build, and 5 shield 5 wm, i put 5 shield cause 5 or 6 wm was not a huge difference, but now with the new system i want to go to 4 shield 6 wm, i will be fuck ? I have to respect my lvl 34 ?

It will be cool if we can change 1 or 2  skill in agility part for this kind of thing, shielder put more in shield than wm cause it was more efficient but now i think a lot hybird with shield will want to change 1 or 2 point in shield to go in wm. I m sure a lot of hybrid will need the same sort of little adaptation to their build.

I got allready fucked when requirment for horse change, plz dont add some sand.

Thanks.

Offline Kafein

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #320 on: November 11, 2013, 08:19:41 pm »
+1
About the changes themselves, I think it's great that people are still working to improve the mod. Tydeus has been dealing with important problems upfront instead of trying to partially patch things up hiding the symptoms in a semi broken way like we were used to (I hope nobody will take offense at that). I think more builds should dedicate more points to WM, and it will indirectly reduce IF stacking which is nice. However, I do not think increasing the maximum reachable wpf values is a good idea. The engine can hardly keep up with the fastest builds already, making them faster would further increase problems with very high agi builds.

Offline Tzar

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #321 on: November 11, 2013, 08:22:08 pm »
+3
Worst part is, this patch does more bad then good.

TBH: idc about str whores... ive never found them to be an issue. Most of the time they are just free kills because u can dance/spam em to death...

I feels its a shame you end up fucking over us hybrids....

Anyways, this patch just kills throwers and hybrids...
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline San

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #322 on: November 11, 2013, 08:25:42 pm »
0
I don't understand the hybrid problem. Doesn't this only affect hybrids under 6WM?

Offline Tzar

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #323 on: November 11, 2013, 08:28:16 pm »
0
Alright, this has probably been asked about more than anything else, so here are some examples of what some wpf splits could look like.

8 WM with 24 Agility could give you 184 WPF in one type or...
170/73
167/84
135/135
135/94/94

5 WM with 15 Agility could give you 139 wpf in one type or...
110/81
120/62
97/97

If you know how much wpf you gotta have per power throw then yes, it will fuck over throwers fx.. i will go from 140 wpf in 1h to 100 to be able to use my 6 pt...

Unless i wanna go pure thrower tard..... which inst really desirable for a main character..

I all ready use a reinforced leather scale armor... cant go much lower in armor to reduce my wpf for my 6 pt...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 08:31:40 pm by Tzar »
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline SP1N

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #324 on: November 11, 2013, 08:31:33 pm »
0
I'd say having a 110/81 split with just 5 WM is still pretty damn good.
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #325 on: November 11, 2013, 08:31:43 pm »
+7
Worst part is, this patch does more bad then good.

TBH: idc about str whores... ive never found them to be an issue. Most of the time they are just free kills because u can dance/spam em to death...

I feels its a shame you end up fucking over us hybrids....

Anyways, this patch just kills throwers and hybrids...
WPF per PT requirement has been lowered for the next patch.

I don't understand the hybrid problem. Doesn't this only affect hybrids under 6WM?
Unless they're triple split hybrids, yes.
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Offline Tzar

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #326 on: November 11, 2013, 08:32:23 pm »
+1
Nwm: I guess Tydeus thought this change trough, so it only effect str cruthers, and not the rest of us silly hybrid tards which cant be arsed to go with the regular FOTM build.

Cheers  :wink:

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« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 08:36:50 pm by Tzar »
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #327 on: November 11, 2013, 08:44:41 pm »
0
WPF per PT requirement has been lowered for the next patch.

So what is the new requirement per PT ?

Offline Penitent

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #328 on: November 11, 2013, 09:04:27 pm »
+1
WPF per PT requirement has been lowered for the next patch.
Unless they're triple split hybrids, yes.

Like me. :(

Offline Tydeus

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Re: WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)
« Reply #329 on: November 11, 2013, 09:07:03 pm »
+3
Like me. :(
In which case you get 7 WM to have roughly the same and 8WM to have more.
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