Author Topic: No need to be mad  (Read 9614 times)

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Offline Oberyn

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #150 on: November 09, 2013, 09:56:17 am »
0
What ideas would you like to talk about? The ridiculous communist inspired postmodern claptrap you've so obviously been filled with? I have no idea how people can still use the exact same tired propaganda terms. I'm sure you are entirely well intentioned with your ideals, and entirely believe that their application would lead to some utopia. The problem I have is, HOW can you believe this? Do you not see how idealistic constructs ALWAYS implode under the weight of their own unrealistic expectations? Or how they are routinely corrupted, appropriated and manipulated by the oligarchic elite? Sure, maybe not the exact same oligarchic elites that were there before, but put someone in a position of power and no matter how pure their idealistic credentials they still fall into that same old tired mode of rule.
Yes, you "don't want". Your wants have nothing to do with it. The world does not revolve around your feelings, or anyone else's. I think human minds are what corrupts, not what is corrupted. When you stir the pot the scum rises to the top.

ps: There were people who thought the invention of the plane would end war and hatred forever. That man's unnering need to fly being fulfilled, people would be "free". I find it hilarious that one one hand you talk about the horrible capitalist mode of production, unequal distribution of resources and the plight of Africa, and on the other hail fucking Google-glass and cybernetic implants as some sort of potential society changing event. Yes, because cutting-edge technology that costs ridiculous ammounts of money created and marketed by gigantic corporations has always been at the forefront of social change
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 10:00:38 am by Oberyn »
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Offline Panos_

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #151 on: November 09, 2013, 10:21:56 am »
-2
lol

...maybe he just grab the girlfriend on her arse cuz drunk and now it's all "Arab vs Swedish"? :D

Oh, and hoping for someone to end in... what? Some bombing? Very classy...
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Classy?? Every accusation I make, it`s based on something, I don`t make it up neither I imagine things, you wanna call me a neo nazee? Be my guest, this won`t be the first time that I`ve been called that, but you can`t deny the fact that the majority of muslims in Europe, are good for nothing low life scumbags, living on wealthfare, stealing, beating, raping, and killing every beatiful country they live in.


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Offline War_Ferret

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #152 on: November 09, 2013, 10:23:57 am »
0
@ Oberyn

I made lots of good points in my posts here in this thread. I don't want to repeat them all. You should ask yourself who of us is more brain-washed though. I've always lived in a society (and I suppose, so have you) where capitalism is glorified and socialism is condemned. I tried to thoroughly and independently understand the meaning of both and how capitalism has shaped this world, and I've come to the conclusion that a socialist approach is much preferrable. Therefore I don't consider myself brain-washed. What about you?

There were some historical socialistic societies that turned out to be totalitarian, repressive regimes and did nothing to end poverty, that's no secret - China, Russia and the whole UDSSR are the most prominent examples. But how can you blame that on socialism? There have been both socialist and capitalist dictatorships. Clearly I want a democratic socialism, not a totalitarian one. And don't say that isn't possible - socialism and democracy are practically made for each other, unlike capitalism and democracy. There have been good examples for that.

Just take Salvador Allende, the democratically elected hero of the people of Chile, who got assassinated with the help of Nixon and the CIA - to be replaced with the rightist, tyrant and dictator Pinochet.

I am an admirer of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela and I'm glad Evo Morales is still president of Bolivia. South America has had some great democratic and socialist leaders. Not even the US can assassinate them all.

Fidel Castro, although not a democrat, has also done great things for his people - cheap medicine supply, shelter for everyone, the "education offensive", social security systems etc. However, the embargo and the economic war started by the US was probably too much to handle for Cuba in the long run.

The core concept with all the true socialists is probably the reclaiming of public property, though. It's the basic requirement to give back the power to the people.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #153 on: November 09, 2013, 10:40:19 am »
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I'm sorry, have you even lived in any of the countries you're talking about? Is this the same Chile that has a hardcore rivalry with literally every single one of it's neighbors? The disdain for argentinians, peruvians and espescially bolivians (they still havent gotten over their loss of access to the sea) is common from the most right-wing Pinochet idealizing Opus Dei member to the the most left-wing university student Allende martyr worshipping commie. Or how Chavez's and even Castro's rise to power was entirely enscribed in an ethnic rivalry between native/mestizo and the colonial descendent oligarchs. Hell, most latin american countries in general are full of petty ethnic/national rivalries, regardless of political leaning.
I live in France, and politically even the "right-wingers" have no problem at all with socialism as an economic model. I just find the idea that this model is some sort of panacea for ethnic rivalry or even class distinctions and will lead to some sort of rainbow-farting utopia ridiculous. As should anyone with even a smattering of knowledge of history.
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Offline War_Ferret

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #154 on: November 09, 2013, 10:49:01 am »
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So what's your point? There are still problems is nations with socialistic politics? The world isn't perfect? You don't say.

Offline Xant

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #155 on: November 09, 2013, 10:54:08 am »
+1
This is a completely separate discussion from patriotism being stupid, by the way. Which is fine, but Oberyn used that as some sort of an awkward springboard to this current subject, hardcore straw-manning what Kafein said and what I was saying.
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #156 on: November 09, 2013, 10:55:20 am »
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You say "problem", I say constant and normal feature that has been present in every human society that has ever existed. But then again, I don't have a fantastical checklist of how "things should be" to compare it to inside my head. Yup, the world isn't perfect, no matter how much you "don't want" it to be.
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #157 on: November 09, 2013, 10:58:12 am »
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This is a completely separate discussion from patriotism being stupid, by the way. Which is fine, but Oberyn used that as some sort of an awkward springboard to this current subject, hardcore straw-manning what Kafein said and what I was saying.

How is it a separate discussion? Patriotism is as stupid as any other tribal identification. If anything it's the most inclusive one we have, at the moment. Ethnicity, religion and politics are far more restrictive, in decreasing order, but it is often a mix of all 4 anyways. 
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Offline Xant

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #158 on: November 09, 2013, 11:04:57 am »
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How is it a separate discussion? Patriotism is as stupid as any other tribal identification. If anything it's the most inclusive one we have, at the moment. Ethnicity, religion and politics are far more restrictive, in decreasing order, but it is often a mix of all 4 anyways.
I'm not sure what your point is. You're saying patriotism is stupid, then? Not sure what the argument is supposed to be.
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Offline Osiris

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #159 on: November 09, 2013, 11:07:35 am »
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I can just imagine you guys sitting in the corner during the world cup and Olympics laughing at all the stupid people cheering for their country (which is probably going to be most people)
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Offline Xant

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #160 on: November 09, 2013, 11:13:09 am »
+4
I don't watch the world cup or the Olympics. No interest whatsoever in watching other people play some pointless game, while pretending it's "us", "our team", and pretending like it's somehow partly my achievement whenever "my guy" or "my team" wins.
Meaning lies as much
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Offline War_Ferret

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #161 on: November 09, 2013, 11:13:26 am »
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You say "problem", I say constant and normal feature that has been present in every human society that has ever existed. But then again, I don't have a fantastical checklist of how "things should be" to compare it to inside my head. Yup, the world isn't perfect, no matter how much you "don't want" it to be.

Hmm, okay then. I think that's sad, but it explains your position. No point arguing with you about improving the world or comparing economical systems, if you don't care.

Offline War_Ferret

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #162 on: November 09, 2013, 11:17:03 am »
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I don't watch the world cup or the Olympics. No interest whatsoever in watching other people play some pointless game, while pretending it's "us", "our team", and pretending like it's somehow partly my achievement whenever "my guy" or "my team" wins.

It's all about the competition ^^

Who can run the fastest, lift the heaviest, throw the farthest, make the most money... wait that doesn't belong here.

WE ARE POPE!!

Offline Molly

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #163 on: November 09, 2013, 11:38:05 am »
-2

Classy?? Every accusation I make, it`s based on something, I don`t make it up neither I imagine things, you wanna call me a neo nazee? Be my guest, this won`t be the first time that I`ve been called that, but you can`t deny the fact that the majority of muslims in Europe, are good for nothing low life scumbags, living on wealthfare, stealing, beating, raping, and killing every beatiful country they live in.


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This pile of bullshit is so high, I would be surprised if you don't drown in it. Makes me rather speechless.
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Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: No need to be mad
« Reply #164 on: November 09, 2013, 12:04:14 pm »
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How is it a separate discussion? Patriotism is as stupid as any other tribal identification. If anything it's the most inclusive one we have, at the moment. Ethnicity, religion and politics are far more restrictive, in decreasing order, but it is often a mix of all 4 anyways.
It's a separate discussion because Kafein didn't imply any belief in hardcore socialism (fucks sake, I made him wear a Ron Paul avatar once), nor did he imply that people getting over patriotism would save the world.





















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