Increase shield force field

[Phew]

Shields need to be buffed against ranged while at the same time not buffed in melee. A blanket weight reduction without nerfs to 1 handers would present its own problems.

If a player is even remotely capable of manual blocking, using a shield is a serious liability in 1v1 (less lateral coverage than weapon blocking, weight penalty, and slower than weapon blocking even with 100+ speed shields). Not to mention 1h without a shield gets the extremely potent attack nudge that renders a free hit (shield shove has no utility in a 1v1, unless you are standing near a ledge or something).

I think most shielders would be OK with the crappy coverage against ranged if shield skill reduced the effective weight of shields. This would also encourage non-shielders to carry shields, reducing whines about ranged. Win-win

[Rumblood]

Good discussion. While my focus is on creating an effective counter to ranged, the melee portion has merit as well. How has the new one hand stab affected the 1h/shielders? Better I would think, but I haven't played one since the change.

[Phew]

Good discussion. While my focus is on creating an effective counter to ranged, the melee portion has merit as well. How has the new one hand stab affected the 1h/shielders? Better I would think, but I haven't played one since the change.

Shields are already a good but not great deterrent against ranged. The problem is that shields have so many other drawbacks (primarily weight, but also the issues I mentioned above) that most people would rather deal with getting shot than accept the penalties associated with using a shield. Make these penalties less severe, and more people (1h/2h/pole) would decide to carry a shield.

1h balance really has nothing to do with shield balance, because the decision about whether to carry a shield typically has nothing to do with the decision about whether to use 1h vs. 2h vs. pole.

[Jona]

1h stab buff greatly assists shielders in melee fights, but for obvious reasons does little to help them against ranged. As of now, shielders are quite capable of blocking almost all projectiles from the front *ahem, crossbows* but the problem with being so slow / having reduced turn radius is that any ranged from your left/right can easily hit you... lets say you are slowly climbing up a ladder in siege, and archer on either side of you (at your 10 and 2 oclock, not 9 and 3). A highly skilled shielder should be able to look back and forth to block most of the arrows, but as of now you turn too slowly for that to ever happen... and the forcefield isn't strong enough on the sides. Granted, the forcefield is sometimes TOO strong on the sides (and the back, oddly enough) in melee... it is far weaker against ranged.

While a weight reduction would be great, I fear that the all too common agi shielder build would become even more of a plague. Freakin rondel daggers...

[NuberT]

I think shield vs ranged attacks is fine as it is, moving your shield towards the ranged attacker isnt asked too much imo

The only thing that makes me rage a lot as a shielder is the 2h hold->hiltslash nonsene, as there is no counter to, can't chamber, can't faint, can't nudge/kick, can't run away - can only wait for a teamate or take a hit..

btw 1h stab is still borked and should be reverted^^

[Falka]

The problem is that shields have so many other drawbacks (primarily weight, but also the issues I mentioned above)

The one thing which I am unable to understand is why are you carrying shield if, as you say, "shields have so many drawbacks"? Go 1h without shield and stop whinning how bad are shields.

1h without a shield gets the extremely potent attack nudge that renders a free hit

I think it's not true any more. Some time ago Paul said he would make nudge animation taking more time and after last patch, when a few times I tried to make nudge-left attack combo, I was unable to land a hit. Dunno, maybe I did sth wrong, my opponent was lucky and managed to block, weapon was too slow, but maybe it's no longer possible to get free hit after nudge.

[CrazyCracka420]

Pretty sure Paul or Tedious said that it's not possible to land 1h nudge and hit in still.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Pretty sure Paul or Tedious said that it's not possible to land 1h nudge and hit in still.

It is, however only if your opponent is in the process of an attack, and if you're also in the process of an attack AND facehugging them, but besides that, yeah.

[Phew]

The one thing which I am unable to understand is why are you carrying shield if, as you say, "shields have so many drawbacks"? Go 1h without shield and stop whinning how bad are shields.

I think it's not true any more. Some time ago Paul said he would make nudge animation taking more time and after last patch, when a few times I tried to make nudge-left attack combo, I was unable to land a hit. Dunno, maybe I did sth wrong, my opponent was lucky and managed to block, weapon was too slow, but maybe it's no longer possible to get free hit after nudge.

1h no shield and 1h+shield are roughly balanced with each other right now, as are pole and pole+shield (for hoplites). What is not balanced is say the 2h player who chooses to bring a 2 requirement shield for use against archers. He is significantly slower, bolts penetrate his shield, arrows just go around it, throwing weapon break it in 1-2 hits; and he paid 2+ skill points, extra upkeep, and extra weight for these privileges.

Dedicated shielders need an incentive to spec points beyond the shield requirement, and non-dedicated players need an incentive to carry a shield period.

[Templar_Steevee]

even with shield skill 12 or 13 archers are able to hit you with frontal attacks.

That is bullshit. I can hardly ever shot some in his hight foot wich is most exposed to attacks from range. Giving headshots to shielder is impossible if we are standing on seme levels (and shielder have about 4 shield skill and proper shield).

You are also talking about that force fields are to small. You only forgot that most of round and triangle shields were made for not stopping arrows, but frome taking hits from melee. And force fields on horseback is hilarious. Shield is also covering sides and frontal part of horse, sometimes it's impessible to slash HORSE bacause shield is getting all hits.

As someone said force fields on small shields is ridicilous big. For bigger shields they are good.

You are also whining about weight of shields, and that they are too heavy. Shields were made of wood, steel and leather, and they were preety massive to be strong enought to be able to take hits.

In this game Long Bow is 4 kilos what makes it heavier than morningstar and same weight as Flamberge, and one stack of arrows is 10 what is equal to weight of Heavy Board Shield.

So if I would like to make shielder and have same equipment weight as an archer (as an example I'm taking myself) i should take 2 Heavy Board Shield, morningstar and a Broad Short Sword, but I can't do that because of slot system. So Shielders argument that shields are too heavy have no sence.

If you are a shielder and want to catch an arrow with your shield you have to face an archer and do not show him his side and back, it's simple.

Amount of archers is preety high, and archers are able to cooperate and help each other, maybe shielders and other melee should start also cooperating?

[pingpong]

Buff heavy towershields maybe? Smaller shields already have ridicilous force field compared to their size (especially the palm sized buckler).

^this

Board & larger shields really need a buff compared to the smaller ones, theres no point using them because the forcefield stays the same, so why go for the slow & heavy shield when u can have the lighter, smaller, faster & cheaper one which does the same job more effectively. Maybe shield skill is too abusable/effective?

[Rumblood]

Amount of archers is preety high, and archers are able to cooperate and help each other, maybe shielders and other melee should start also cooperating?

There is already the "Shield wall" feature that gives a bonus to the shields and I think it is the forcefield that gets the buff. How about if we give a massive buff to the floor of the bonus when 2 shielders get together and then give a small +1 bonus as each additional shielder up to 5 is added to the wall?

[Paul]

Talking about stupid ideas: how about a feature that allows a sizeable infantry mop to intimidate ranged within a 50m cone? Inf can trigger(with a cooldown) a point and shout(banging weapon against shield for shielders) anim and if enough are doing it at the same time while being close to each other; all enemy ranged within the cone will be affected, make a shit their pants anim and lose all wpf for some time.

[BlindGuy]

even with shield skill 12 or 13 archers are able to hit you with frontal attacks.

No. Not even once.


If you want to FIX shields, remove all forcefields. I carry a round cav shield on my back. Thats shield skill TWO. When I am being shot at, I pull it out, place it between myself and the person shooting me AND AM NOT SHOT AT ALL UNTILL IT BREAKS MY SHIELD. Unless it crossbows, but they go thru any shield pretty much. Once I was even shot in the face thru someone else's shield. It penetrated and high angle, and since I was behind the guy a little laterally places on a ladder, it went thru his board shield and killed me. But so what? Thats an issue with the fucking ridiculously overpowered crossbows in crpg, not a shield problem.

If we could get crossbows to be what they were historically (not very fucking good unless you could afford a nice one, so 0.000001% of the population of most battlefields) a nuisance. Their advantage came from ease of use, not effectiveness: They were never effective as a weapon of precision or armor penetration, they were just there to spam bolts from many noobs.


If you dont know how to use it, the tool is useless, true. Making a better tool will not teach you to use it. So stop stupid posts like this. Sure, shield is not a "hold rmb and do w/e I want" item like it used to be, but they are still MORE than good enough to stop archers and throwers. But you have to use it properly. Also, using a shield in melee is retarded. This isnt a game set before the 12th century anymore. Its renaissance. If you want to argue with this, look in the shop: almost all top tier weapons are based on imaginary renaissance weaponry. The flamberge was never used in battle. Its an ornament. The arbalest never excisted: it is the wet dream of renaissance engineers. The sidesword, long espada, the larger greatswords: renaissance weapons.

Instead of talking shields: can we talk about picking ONE period of history for our gear? Cause round shields and war spears are LITERALLY ONE THOUSAND YEARS removed from sideswords.

[EyeBeat]

Talking about stupid ideas: how about a feature that allows a sizeable infantry mop to intimidate ranged within a 50m cone? Inf can trigger(with a cooldown) a point and shout(banging weapon against shield for shielders) anim and if enough are doing it at the same time while being close to each other; all enemy ranged within the cone will be affected, make a shit their pants anim and lose all wpf for some time.

I like this stupid idea.