War of Northern Aggression

[kasMVC]

There's a lot of butthurt and responding butthurt in this thread already, but I never learned to leave well enough alone, so I'll stick my oar in.

First off, if the declaration of war starting the thread had been "we want XP, fuck you", it would have been an honest statement, and a lot of these problems would have been avoided.

Instead, we get "Casus belli: Diplomatic insult, Border frictions, and Violated Sphere of Influence."

Since you said that, we're entitled to an explanation.  Please, enumerate those insults, frictions, and violations.  There has been no interference by any FCC member with any CC troops, traders, or fiefs, including the villages you hold deep inside the FCC's own sphere of influence, and have enjoyed peaceful possession of since the end of the last war.

Then there's your "War goal":  "End of FCC Hegemony over much of the map."  I'll post an image later, but for now, anyone can take a look at the map and count the number of fiefs FCC and your Confederacy have.  Take one of ours and you'll have a larger (and far more solid) hegemony than we possess.

It only adds insult to injury when you act surprised and offended that FCC members object to you trying to reform the anti-FCC carebear alliance (Occitan/Hospitallers/LL/Frisians) that just broke up a few weeks ago, only this time with Ravens, Dracul, and TKoV added into the mix.  You even try to suborn the GOBBLINS into the exact kind of Mega-bloc war they started their faction to avoid.  I find this disappointing.

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Hospitaller and LL are already actively fighting FCC, so I'm not even sure why you sent them an invitation. 

Some of us don't like being fed bullshit.  If you're attacking, attack, but don't come up with fake justifications for your aggression and try to play the injured party.  It leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth (including, I hope, your own).

You're the guy who can't stop talking in team speak, never would have guessed.

[Artyem]

It only adds insult to injury when you act surprised and offended that FCC members object to you trying to reform the anti-FCC carebear alliance (Occitan/Hospitallers/LL/Frisians) that just broke up a few weeks ago, only this time with Ravens, Dracul, and TKoV added into the mix.  You even try to suborn the GOBBLINS into the exact kind of Mega-bloc war they started their faction to avoid.  I find this disappointing.

It has nothing to do with an "anti-FCC carebear alliance", they literally came into our teamspeak and asked me to personally withdraw my clan from the war, which in turn would mean withdrawing from the Central Confederacy.  If you can't see what's wrong with that, then the diplomacy section is not where you belong.

[Relit]

..., if indeed this war is only for XP, claiming that FCC has committed 'atrocities', listing Cassius Belle of violations and the like, and naming a goal of essentially wiping FCC off the map, or at least greatly reducing their size while the CC grows, looks much like an insult and adds much hostility that would not exist if war was simply declared for an XP war.

I literally crossed out the word atrocities and put XP. It was again a joke related to the American Civil war. Does nobody actually read posts around here or what?

Edit: Let me find the exact part for you so you can see it for yourself:

The Confederacy rises up in opposition to the tyranny of The Yankees Free Companies of Calradia and President Lincoln Kesh. We can no longer stand by and watch the Northerner's relentless attacks upon our neighbors homes. Refugees flee over into our borders and tell us of the atrocitiesXP filled battles committed under the FCC banner.

[BaleOhay]

We have been nothing but friendly yet you continue to spit in our faces. You know the truth of those words. You profess on many occasions to depise big block wars yet you propose to form the largest one of na strat history.

You want war. We shall give it to you. We have been at war since strat started and we have only gotten stronger. Welcome to the party the Terrortops looks forward to eating some crows.

[CrazyCracka420]

Oh look, a diplomacy post.  *clicks thread* Yep just what I thought, FCC in full propaganda mode. 

I wonder if it actually works, does that get people who were on the fence, over to their side, does it push those people away?  Am I naive to think anyone is "on the fence" in this game?  Or is more like the Republican strategy in politics, just get your side so riled up they show up en masse to support you come election day?

[Relit]

We have been nothing but friendly yet you continue to spit in our faces. You know the truth of those words. You profess on many occasions to depise big block wars yet you propose to form the largest one of na strat history.

You want war. We shall give it to you. We have been at war since strat started and we have only gotten stronger. Welcome to the party the Terrortops looks forward to eating some crows.

Yep real friendly. Every time we do anything to anybody, yall remind us how much we owe FCC for "saving us". Or how about those times where NH/Raven members hung out in FCC TS and had a great time with yall (oh wait that never happened except for me).

Our guys respect you but talking like we are the best of friends is a huge stretch.

Oh look, a diplomacy post.  *clicks thread* Yep just what I thought, FCC in full propaganda mode. 

I wonder if it actually works, does that get people who were on the fence, over to their side, does it push those people away?  Am I naive to think anyone is "on the fence" in this game?  Or is more like the Republican strategy in politics, just get your side so riled up they show up en masse to support you come election day?

It pushes people away and riles up their members. Good for ostracizing a group of people but not much else.

[Real_Dece_Guy]

Let me go ahead and spell out everything you want answered real quick. It is not going to resolve anything and your going to get upset and ask more questions and take umbrage some more. But since you asked so nicely I will do that for you.

Diplomatic Insult: Matey said that "Raven is in eternal war with HoC" - This is a lie and hurt our relations with HoC. It is the very definition of a diplomatic insult. Border Frictions: We have 3 villages FCC claims and that we also claim, again this is literally the definition of a border friction. Violated Sphere of influence: FCC is attacking our neighbors and yet again the definition of violating our sphere. Did you even attempt to understand what these three casus belli's even were before bringing them up?

It is helpful to have those points expounded on, since I was trying to understand, and drawing blanks.  I understand the Diplomatic Insult now.  I do still have questions, but I will do my best to refrain from upset and umbrage:

The village claims and sphere of influence questions are still slightly confusing for me, since it appeared that the FCC accepted your conquests by declining to further contest the villages owned by the Central Confederacy.  If re-taking the villages other factions (which you stress are not in an alliance with you) seized in the last war is a violation of your sphere of influence, I would guess we're looking at irreconcilable differences.  Again, do let me know if I'm misunderstanding. 

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I am looking forward to the XP in the battles to come, and I plead guilty to a lack of good humour regarding your RP - I just like clarity in the whys and wherefores when my faction finds itself under attack, and I don't think you'd want anything less if our positions were reversed.

[Matey]

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Let me go ahead and spell out everything you want answered real quick. It is not going to resolve anything and your going to get upset and ask more questions and take umbrage some more. But since you asked so nicely I will do that for you.

Diplomatic Insult: Matey said that "Raven is in eternal war with HoC" - This is a lie and hurt our relations with HoC. It is the very definition of a diplomatic insult. Border Frictions: We have 3 villages FCC claims and that we also claim, again this is literally the definition of a border friction. Violated Sphere of influence: FCC is attacking our neighbors and yet again the definition of violating our sphere. Did you even attempt to understand what these three casus belli's even were before bringing them up? Somebody needs to play some more EU3/4 and CK2. Let us not also forget the recent numerous armies FCC marched straight through Dracul's section of traitor land without so much as a "by your leave".

Under war goals it literally says XP is part of what we are after. So I do not know how to make it more clear to you. Seriously did you even read it? Or did you just get angry because other people did. Ive seen this in areas under a riot, a certain section of the crowd becomes aggressive then the rest sort of lemming along with them.

"Hegemony" is a sort of open interpretation. FCC has the ability to hit just about every corner of the map effectively and in force more so than just about any other faction (except us). This war goal was mostly added as a sort of joke, you know like most of the opening post. The "South" accused the "North" of asserting its hegemony in places where it did not belong during the Civil War, its why I added that. Because it was funny.

Calling it a carebear alliance, does not actually make it one, I hope you are aware. And no we are not trying to form a alliance with the clans that were listed (except TkoV, weve been allied with them since practically strat began), it was more of a call to arms of like minded (read: At war with FCC) people. And adding the GOBBLIN's was a slight mistake apparently they are NOT at war with FCC, a recent skirmish between them confused me slightly.

As far as being fed bullshit, perhaps you should take a step back and realize the majority of the post was a humorous homage to the American Civil War with a crpg twist on it. This is a war game. Game. Settle down.

Considering your public battle message was talking about how you don't recognize the current leadership of HoC and will never allow HoC and Bonesaw to ever accomplish anything in strat an you are doing everything you can (outside of directly attacking HoC) to hurt them and prevent them from having any success because of Bonesaw's actions... is it any surprise that people could interpret that as a declaration of eternal war? It wasn't my place to say it I guess but using that against us as an excuse for war is pathetic. A much better example of a diplomatic insult was when you guys unilaterally declared peace between us and Frisia just as we were launching armies to take back our villages then threatening us with war if we tried to take back those villages.

Eh fuck it I don't need to rehash it all again so I'll just stop there. The more you spew stupid justifications the more you look like an ass. You wanted XP, you wanted war and you wanted to fight someone nearby who was distracted with other matters. We fit the bill and now we are war. Simple enough, drop the shit and just fight us.

p.s. I'm a Canadian so throwing civil war reference stuff at me is not going to have any positive effects. Alls I know bout dat war is a bunch of really dumb slaving muricans fought a bunch of really dumb not as slaving muricans and lost.

[DaruviansUnmutedAccount]

"YOU LOOK LIKE SUCH AN ASS LOL, LOOK AT ALL THESE WRONG THINGS YOU'RE SAYING"

"NO, YOU LOOK LIKE AN ASS, YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING!!!!"

Wow, these are such good threads.

[Warborn304]

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Considering your public battle message was talking about how you don't recognize the current leadership of HoC and will never allow HoC and Bonesaw to ever accomplish anything in strat an you are doing everything you can (outside of directly attacking HoC) to hurt them and prevent them from having any success because of Bonesaw's actions... is it any surprise that people could interpret that as a declaration of eternal war? It wasn't my place to say it I guess but using that against us as an excuse for war is pathetic. A much better example of a diplomatic insult was when you guys unilaterally declared peace between us and Frisia just as we were launching armies to take back our villages then threatening us with war if we tried to take back those villages.

Eh fuck it I don't need to rehash it all again so I'll just stop there. The more you spew stupid justifications the more you look like an ass. You wanted XP, you wanted war and you wanted to fight someone nearby who was distracted with other matters. We fit the bill and now we are war. Simple enough, drop the shit and just fight us.

p.s. I'm a Canadian so throwing civil war reference stuff at me is not going to have any positive effects. Alls I know bout dat war is a bunch of really dumb slaving muricans fought a bunch of really dumb not as slaving muricans and lost.

The more and more Relit says, the more people realize that

...Does nobody actually read posts around here or what?

No one fucking cares what he has to say, and that he's a fucking god awful diplomat. He should have literally said,

p.s we're at war with you because fuck you

And never returned to the thread what so ever.

I can't wait to see FCC wreck shit again.

[Relit]

It is helpful to have those points expounded on, since I was trying to understand, and drawing blanks.  I understand the Diplomatic Insult now.  I do still have questions, but I will do my best to refrain from upset and umbrage:

The village claims and sphere of influence questions are still slightly confusing for me, since it appeared that the FCC accepted your conquests by declining to further contest the villages owned by the Central Confederacy.  If re-taking the villages other factions (which you stress are not in an alliance with you) seized in the last war is a violation of your sphere of influence, I would guess we're looking at irreconcilable differences.  Again, do let me know if I'm misunderstanding. 

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I am looking forward to the XP in the battles to come, and I plead guilty to a lack of good humour regarding your RP - I just like clarity in the whys and wherefores when my faction finds itself under attack, and I don't think you'd want anything less if our positions were reversed.

Village claims: We tried negotiating over the villages Matey and I went back and forth for about a week. Talks stalled so we (the Confederacy), called them off as they were accomplishing nothing but headaches on our end. The matter was never fully resolved, both sides still fully claimed both and we have not heard anything about FCC giving up the claims since then.

Sphere of influence: FCC is not just attacking villages held by others in FCC's claimed lands. Yall are fighting in the steppe around Ichamur... The LL/Hospitaller area. Which is right next to the Raven section of the Confederacy.

[Krosis]

Oh look, a diplomacy post.  *clicks thread* Yep just what I thought, FCC in full propaganda mode. 

I wonder if it actually works, does that get people who were on the fence, over to their side, does it push those people away?

Well, Frisia.. Dracul.. who else has turned on them, for the same reasons ( I think)...

At some point you have to realize there's a reason this is happening.

It's not to join the "big block".. it's really because no one likes FCC and what they've done so far in strat. Kesh ofc, doesn't help. They see it as a big block because it's quite a number of people.. but they're still on denial.

[Matey]

Village claims: We tried negotiating over the villages Matey and I went back and forth for about a week. Talks stalled so we (the Confederacy), called them off as they were accomplishing nothing but headaches on our end. The matter was never fully resolved, both sides still fully claimed both and we have not heard anything about FCC giving up the claims since then.

Sphere of influence: FCC is not just attacking villages held by others in FCC's claimed lands. Yall are fighting in the steppe around Ichamur... The LL/Hospitaller area. Which is right next to the Raven section of the Confederacy.

Actually we offered to give up claims on sumbuja and Ayyike but you didn't bother responding. And this might be shocking news to you, but we have been fighting in the steppes off and on for almost a year now.

[Relit]

The more and more Relit says, the more people realize that

No one fucking cares what he has to say, and that he's a fucking god awful diplomat...

Go take a lesson from Bonesaw and know when to put the muzzle on yourself. You are not helping your faction. Contact Redgar. Seriously.

Actually we offered to give up claims on sumbuja and Ayyike but you didn't bother responding. And this might be shocking news to you, but we have been fighting in the steppes off and on for almost a year now.

And this changes the violated sphere of influence how? You did it... repeatedly... that makes the entire casus belli legitimate.

Edit: This is as pointless as watching anybody try and reason/discuss anything with FCC. You guys refuse to look at it from other peoples perspective. This is a waste of time. And thankfully I do not have to deal with yall anymore. Thank God.

[Matey]

Go take a lesson from Bonesaw and know when to put the muzzle on yourself. You are not helping your faction. Contact Redgar. Seriously.

And this changes the violated sphere of influence how? You did it... repeatedly... that makes the entire casus belli legitimate.

oh yeah! well I declare war on your favourite song. My casus belli is: You attacked the moon, you shot ghandi, you called me names when I was 4 years old and your name is Relit.

Your name is Relit... Therefore my entire casus belli is legitimate!