I don't get this.

[[ptx]]

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Arrows describe direction, in which those stats improve.
Yumi bow is an exception, it's a sort of specialty bow. "Bow" is out of order, it could be in place of Yumi.
*Accuracy actually goes that way as well, since higher bow base damage = lowers accuracy AND holding time.

What.

Ok, most of these things have been this way before... AND IT WAS FINE.

Except for the one stat, which got its direction REVERSED during the last change to archery - missile speed.

Missile speed - this determines how quickly an arrow begins to drop, and thus determines the range of a bow - both the maximum range (how far can you shoot) and EFFECTIVE range (at what range can you actually hope to hit a moving/dodging target).

This being reversed has made it so that longbow effectively has the shortest range of all bows (with the exception of Yumi) and is generally shit in every other way as well, whilst Horn and Tatar bows completely dominate at all distances, due to their combination of draw speed, missile speed and accuracy, due to their lower base damage.

The only argument i've received, when i've sought for any sort of explanation: this simulates longbows firing heavier arrows. What the fuck, realism? Last i checked, longbows were known for their great range?

What the fuck, balance?

[Xant]

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[Bjord]

I hate ranged but this is bullshit, makes no sense. Who did this!?

[Paul]

Afaik horn and tatar are both composite bows while the longbow is a one material bow made out of a material (wood) that has a rather low maximum spring speed. That means even with decreasing the arrow weight the longbow would hit an upper limit for projectile speed, which is around 60 m/s iirc. A composite bow circumvents that problem with using a high spring speed material in combination with the slower wood. Steel, as used in high powered crossbow, has a high maximum speed as well.

So yes, one has to imagine in cRPG that the longbow uses different, heavier arrows than other bows. But that is what happens in reality anyway. Also Tydeus did it.

[[ptx]]

Yes, but... the part about range? And, y'kno, actual ingame balance.

[Paul]

The English exaggerated the shit out of their national weapon. On the other hand there were Turkish claims that the range of their bows (composite) was 1km which tops the allerged 300-400m of the longbows significantly.

What I can imagine though is that because of the heavy war arrows the high draw weight longbows launched, they were still effective at maximum range. This is not a matter of course especially with armor around. Lighter arrows might have been very weak at distance while heavy arrows were affected less by drag loss and wind. So my guess is that longbows got their legacy from their good effective range while lighter draw weight bows were ineffective at distance.

[[ptx]]

Well, this doesn't really translate to cRPG either, as the lighter bows have vastly superior effective range now.

[Nordwolf]

Afaik horn and tatar are both composite bows while the longbow is a one material bow made out of a material (wood) that has a rather low maximum spring speed. That means even with decreasing the arrow weight the longbow would hit an upper limit for projectile speed, which is around 60 m/s iirc. A composite bow circumvents that problem with using a high spring speed material in combination with the slower wood. Steel, as used in high powered crossbow, has a high maximum speed as well.

So yes, one has to imagine in cRPG that the longbow uses different, heavier arrows than other bows. But that is what happens in reality anyway. Also Tydeus did it.

I'm sorry but from realism point of view it doesn't make sense.

If same arrow is shot, what defines it's damage? Speed.
If you want different arrow weights, implement them, so for e.g. arrows with higher weight (and damage) are much more accurate with Rus/Long Bow, arrows with lower weight have chance to break or less accuracy with higher difficulty.  This won't happen anyway though.
So having less damage and higher missile speed is not realistic.
In reality Long Bows were long range weapon with low close combat capacity, as it was always in cRPG.

Now from balance point of view.
Firstly, "insert random rage quote about changing missile speeds for archery", and I agree with those... mostly. It worsens players accuracy much more than "accuracy stat"
Secondly, Long bow was always a sniper bow, with it's speed and damage. Now it's not effective at all.
I've always used it not because of damage. but because of missile speed.

Actually after that update I didn't even look at it's stats, I just stopped using it because it didn't feel right and any good to use.

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My archers are alts to clarify

EDIT:
I've looked at bow missile speed stats...
It has no sense to give higher tier bows lower missile speed - it is the best stat for bows.

At the moment you are able to have pin-point accuracy with tatart bows and even deal a lot of damage. Yes, more damage than Long Bow in capacity of hitting more targets close, much more targets at longer distances. And damage stat suddenly becomes useless.

How it should be by missile speed stat:
Short bow - 40
Nomad bow - 42
Tatar bow - 44
Bow - 42
Horn Bow - 44
Yumi - 38 (ultimate HA weapon with it's accuracy and damage)
Rus Bow - 42
Long Bow - 43

[AntiBlitz]

just to throw this out there, you can see the slow moving longbow shot and actually just move out of the way at range, but the Horn bows arrow is like a speeding train, its so fast you dont have much chance to dodge it, and they always seem to fire in a very flatline trajectory while the longbow has the weird lobbing shots, making you always have to aim rather high above the target.

[CrazyCracka420]

I'm not an archer, but I was always confuzzled by the bow stats.

I would have imagined the Long Bow would have the highest speed rating since it has the highest draw power.  I would think that the bows that take the longest to pull back, would travel the fastest through the air. And the bows that pull back and release the fastest, would have the slowest missile speed.  Shouldn't the damage of a bow be directly correlated with the missile speed?

[Paul]

I give up. Instead of writing "maximum spring speed" again and again I'll just say it's slower because we felt like making it so.

[Nordwolf]

I give up. Instead of writing "maximum spring speed" again and again I'll just say it's slower because we felt like making it so.

So if you give up..... maybe you can hear all of us and consider to do something? >.>

[[ptx]]

*I* get it, but, when has cRPG been balanced around "realism"?

[Bjord]

*I* get it, but, when has cRPG been balanced around realism?

December 2011

[Hirlok]

They fear me, so they destroyed longbow. Simple as that. Get pussy bow, keep shoot'n