I don't get this.

[Hoppster]

long bow is a joke now, 1500 more than horn bow for upkeep, double the slots, and its slow as fuck. not worth it, i'd rather use tht slot for a better melle weapon or more arrows

[[ptx]]

Don't forget that you can hold the draw for a long time on the Long Bow.  Having a slow draw also means more time to line up the crosshairs, so overall its lack of speed can be a boon to some archers who want more time for precise shots.

And missile speed is a personal thing as well, a lot of ranged (myself included when I was HA) tend to stick with one ranged weapon and simply internalize the missile speed.  It becomes a gut thing, and doesn't factor into a weapon's effectiveness once you're used to and competent with it.

Are we playing the same game?

[Nordwolf]

Don't forget that you can hold the draw for a long time on the Long Bow.  Having a slow draw also means more time to line up the crosshairs, so overall its lack of speed can be a boon to some archers who want more time for precise shots.

And missile speed is a personal thing as well, a lot of ranged (myself included when I was HA) tend to stick with one ranged weapon and simply internalize the missile speed.  It becomes a gut thing, and doesn't factor into a weapon's effectiveness once you're used to and competent with it.

If you call Long Bow's draw holding time with normal crosshair long, then all the short bows' time is forever.

[Utrakil]

My archer alt likes the fact that cheap bows are superior now. it needs a hell lot less upkeep to be an archer now.

[Tydeus]

*I* get it, but, when has cRPG been balanced around "realism"?

I hated the status quo which dictated that less than half of the bows(my mission has been to make nearly every item worth using) would ever really even be used and wanted to change it. It was also clear that increasing damage was not a possibility. Thus I utilized realism for the idea and came up with numbers I thought were appropriate for balance, numbers that weren't dictated by physics necessarily. If that's balancing around realism then I'm all for it. It may be a video game, but it's clear that realism gives us a good starting point for just about everything(gravity, for one). Just so I don't confuse anyone, I'll put this bluntly; I put functionality before anything else.

Edit: Tweaks are never off the table.

[[ptx]]

Yeah, but, as stated, this achieved the exact opposite, as horn/tatar bows are now almost the only bows in use.

[Tydeus]

Yeah, but, as stated, this achieved the exact opposite, as horn/tatar bows are now almost the only bows in use.

But I don't see any reason to believe that the method used was wrong, just that the numbers chosen were; the general feeling in this thread is that the opposite is true.

[CrazyCracka420]

I personally would give up some damage to have a superior bow (which is what the horn bow is right now, but hell I'd probably even use a nomad bow due to the high draw and missile speed...using +3 and +3 of bodkins/tatar would be rape face IMO).  I think all that was done was made the rus/long bow much less appealing to use, and made the lighter bows way more appealing. 

I think the lighter bows should be be cheaper, quickest to draw back, do medium to light damage (compared to heavy bows) and also have slower missile speeds.  The higher end bows should take more difficulty to shoot, take quite a while to draw back, do good damage, and have the highest missile speeds.

More like native...what we have now is just 'what is this, i don't even'.  Saying this as an outside observer who doesn't use a bow or have any current archer alts.  It seems like as you go up in bows the draw speed should get slower, missile speed should get higher, and damage should get higher.  A natural progression.

*EDIT* as gurni says below...don't get me wrong, as a cavalry player I like that people are using weaker bows    It just seems like the balance is off in the bows to me.

[Gurnisson]

Yeah, but, as stated, this achieved the exact opposite, as horn/tatar bows are now almost the only bows in use.

Best patch ever. Shokoshugi changed to horn bow and now he doesn't hit like a motherfucking train anymore (1-2 shots). Now I can actually dare to go close as 1h cav on a heavy horse.

[[ptx]]

Oh, damn, even dedicated uberhardhitters now use the lower bows.

[Tydeus]

I think all that was done was made the rus/long bow much less appealing to use, and made the lighter bows way more appealing. 

This was one of the main objectives; these two bows were being used far too often. As Gurnisson said, it's better to have archers preferring to use weapons that don't one shot melee. Even if the changes went a bit further than intended, not only can tweaks still be done, but overall gameplay would seem to be enhanced. Fewer 1shots without implementing any actual nerfs or major game mechanics changes that would decrease the maximum damage potential or overall effectiveness of any bows.

[Hirlok]

archers preferring to use weapons that don't one shot melee.

LULZ. Made my day.

[Matey]

This was one of the main objectives; these two bows were being used far too often. As Gurnisson said, it's better to have archers preferring to use weapons that don't one shot melee. Even if the changes went a bit further than intended, not only can tweaks still be done, but overall gameplay would seem to be enhanced. Fewer 1shots without implementing any actual nerfs or major game mechanics changes that would decrease the maximum damage potential or overall effectiveness of any bows.

Eh I dunno bout other groups in strat... but us FCC folks are Long bows and Horn bows only and I think the long bows are the more popular. Strat is a different beast than battle though since everyone in strat is in plate.

[Templar_Steevee]

Yeah, but, as stated, this achieved the exact opposite, as horn/tatar bows are now almost the only bows in use.

Maybe that's true, but at least for me it looks like that foot archers that are killing lots of ppl are using at least Horn Bow.

For me Long Bow is best bow, and I'm using it since i make an archer. Fu** all nerfs, it's all the time a deadly weapon.
It's also harder to use because of draw speed and draw time without loosing accuracy, but I like it. Other bows are way easier to use.

[Hirlok]

well - what gear do you use stevee?

with a normal outfit (ragged, woolen cap, leather gloves, rus shoes), longbow, 2x bodkins and medium 0 slot weapon I looooooose money fast. I have alts in all classes - none looses money that fast, apart from heaviest plate.

Not viable and makes no sense, taken into account that lb has become a joke and mw bodkins are junk meanwhile.


Together with the recent nerfs it has tempted me to go horn bow this gen - and I could puke.

Or in different words: I am about to take another extended break.
High tier archery is not wanted in c-rpg, so  be it.