Two-directional polearms are a fucking joke

[Teeth]

I think what Teeth is noticing really is that they are easier to use than his standard stabbing weapon, the Long Spear. Which might be true but doesn't make them OP. Long Spear still has its own advantages and not everything has to be as difficult to use as that.

If you think 2D poles are OP then try hoplite, 1 hand stabbing, 2 hand, xbows etc. They can't really do much without making 2D poles obsolete again, they have to have something going for them to justify only being 2 directions or not having a shield.

I think what I am noticing is that stabbing with any weapon within the poles/1h class is much, much easier than it was before. Now 1h needed a stab improvement, but it was overdone, polearm did not need one at all. Two-directional polearms were not weak at all pre-patch, I'd say they were in an excellent position. The thing the two-directionals have going for them is death on a very long, quick stick. If you revert polearm stabs to what they were, you still have 33-36p with around 90 speed, which when it comes to stabbing is really high speed, and 170-180 length. Also, polearm overhead got sped up significantly.

My standard stabbing weapon is the pike by the way, I haven't used the Long Spear outside of Strat for like 1,5 years.

Why hasn't this thread been nerfed to the Chamber of Tears?

Probably because people know me as a polearm stab abuser through and through so they might actually think my comments on polearm stabbing are grounded in something else than a 'nerf my counter' mentality.

Basically if you'd carefully read my point is that stabs in general are OP, which is most clearly noticable with two-directional polearms because they are so damn good at stabbing. My pike also got like +15 effective reach due to being able to hit late animation, but 15 more animation reach is simply not as significant on a 300 reach weapon. I'd like to see a revert of the polearm stabbing change, as it was unnecessary. Polearm stabs were good enough and stabs should not hit until the very end of the animation, it looks stupid. 2h should glance earlier in the animation than it has always done and 1h stab should also glance slightly earlier, but not as early as before.

I think that would equalize the 3 stabs and would not make them too strong compared to swings. It would remove the ridiculous late stabbing for all 3 classes and would prevent a lot of awkward deaths.

[Kafein]

I'd like to see a revert of the polearm stabbing change, as it was unnecessary. Polearm stabs were good enough and stabs should not hit until the very end of the animation, it looks stupid. 2h should glance earlier in the animation than it has always done and 1h stab should also glance slightly earlier, but not as early as before.

I think that would equalize the 3 stabs and would not make them too strong compared to swings. It would remove the ridiculous late stabbing for all 3 classes and would prevent a lot of awkward deaths.

This is basically what I am saying and people scream biaised

[Aseldo]

It just frustrates me that even polearms that have 80 something speed stab faster than say a normal 2h slash or 1h slash

[San]

From a 1h/short 2h perspective that may be the case.
O = Person
> = Pointy end of polearm

Distance for a 1h
--O-->O
--O-->  O Distance for a longer 2h

Upon release, even at lower speeds, it takes a similar time to get a proper hitbox at close range, but then it takes a while for the stab to extend. The longer the distance, the easier it is to get your swing in first as long as you're in range. The close range swinger gets caught more often since the start of the stab is just that much closer. Slower stabs do have a pretty decent delay on the initial chamber, though.

The above example is similar to a spear's stabbing experience. When you get to awlpike/long awlpike levels, you can wiggle into close distance and 2h distances become close. Best tactic is to move so close that the stab glances (very susceptible to kicks since you're moving into them on purpose) or get somewhat close and try to move away from the wiggle direction (up to down you can't challenge easily).

With 1h stab, the natural speed on the weapons and reach bonus are so good that medium-long distances on the stab reach very quickly with short chamber times. At very long/short distances you could do something, but at medium distances you can't challenge it with anything and must block. Moving in can easily change the long distance to medium at any point, which makes it even riskier.

I believe that only stabs should be balanced with each other- reach bonus and sweetspot areas. There are many variables when looking at stab vs slash, especially when you take thrust stun, what should hit first, etc. into account. I still think that stabs are balanced with each other, but have too poorly defined sweetspot areas because raw damage can overcome poor hits.

[Tzar]

Doesn't matter which weapon type.... stabs in this game is just overused.... gawwd combat is boring these days 

[Tindel]

I think the 3 weapon types are more balanced now than ever when it comes to the stab.

There is the evil and imba polearm stabbers
The horrible and OP lolstab 2handers
And the new kids, lame and FOTM 1h stabbers.

Which one should be buffed/nerfed?  ALL?  NONE?

I guess slight tweaking of animation and sweetspots to make the game more fluid and responsive might be a good idea, but thats easier said than done.

[Osiris]

i fear awlpikers more than anyone else on the battlefield and i have a shield O.o some polearms do an incredible amount of damage with almost insta release i dont see a problem with 2h stabs at all and maybe 1h stabs should be slower or the damage nerfed a little

[Tydeus]

Yeah they're pretty strong. Having zero problems with an unloomed ashwood pike, no shield.

[Ronin]

By the way, what do you think about halberd-type weapons? Ranseur, Swiss Halberd, English Bill etc. I didn't see much people using them in any kind of gameplay.

[Grumbs]

Yeah they're pretty strong. Having zero problems with an unloomed ashwood pike, no shield.

Might be a broken record, but how about buffing cheaper poles to coincide with cheaper 1 hander/2handers?

Long Volgue doesn't need to be unbalanced, and 18 pierce is laughable
How about giving horse rearing stat to weapons <141 length. If you can stab a cav in the head with a short weapon you deserve the rear, with how easy it is to get bumped or hit with anything. It would make the spears shorter than Battle Fork something to consider rather than jumping straight to War Spear/Ashwood Pike/Battlefork

[Swaggart]

I don't think anyone can deny that they are strong but they're only strong in the right hands. They are not nearly as intuitive as 4 directional weapons.

[Teeth]

By the way, what do you think about halberd-type weapons? Ranseur, Swiss Halberd, English Bill etc. I didn't see much people using them in any kind of gameplay.

I can say that the English Bill has been fine ever since they reduced it's weight so it turns faster. With the recent overhead speed up it's a very good weapon. It's just that with the recent superbuff to all stabs having a 34p overhead and a 30p stab is worse than having a 35p stab and a crap overhead on for example the Long Awlpike. Stabs outshine the polearm overhead by far now, which makes them relatively UP, but only because the real stabby polearms are OP.

Although I played with the English Bill today and the hit detection was god awful, I teamhit and missed much more than I can remember. It hits way too the right of where I aim usually. Also, the Swiss Halberd with it's 41p is in my opinion terrible compared to the 34p of the Bill. Ranseur is not much of an overhead focused polearm anyway, 30c is crap, it's OP because of the good stab.

[Zanze]

I like the 2d polearms, they are very fun to use and I would use more...but arrows suck.

On polearms having good stabs, they have slow pull backs to their attacks to compensate. So I think poles getting first strike is fine as long as you go in with the mindset that it will not be an easy kill because lolpole.

[Swaggart]

I can say that the English Bill has been fine ever since they reduced it's weight so it turns faster. With the recent overhead speed up it's a very good weapon. It's just that with the recent superbuff to all stabs having a 34p overhead and a 30p stab is worse than having a 35p stab and a crap overhead on for example the Long Awlpike. Stabs outshine the polearm overhead by far now, which makes them relatively UP, but only because the real stabby polearms are OP.

Although I played with the English Bill today and the hit detection was god awful, I teamhit and missed much more than I can remember. It hits way too the right of where I aim usually. Also, the Swiss Halberd with it's 41p is in my opinion terrible compared to the 34p of the Bill. Ranseur is not much of an overhead focused polearm anyway, 30c is crap, it's OP because of the good stab.

I use the Swiss Halberd as my main weapon and I prefer it the most out of all the 2d polearms. Main reason is because it's noticeably quicker and easier to aim, and that bonus against shields gives it great versatility. Also, 41c to the head is still devastating, not as hard hitting as the Bill but still quite strong.

[Osiris]

to be fair i find most 2d polearms fine. Ashwood pike and awlpike however seem to be better 1 on 1 weapons than anything else as a pole/1h/cav/anything guy (i have 18-18 120wpf in 1h 120wpf in 2h) i fear someone with awlpike or ashwood more than say teeth as a hoplite or with his pike no offence if you just had awlpike id run like hell but as hoplite im willing to risk an attack. other polearms seem ok just awlpike and ashwood are bane of my life <3

tldr id rather fight the top 5 2h duelists in a row on eu1 than a great fighter with an awlpike :/