Two-directional polearms are a fucking joke

[Gurnisson]

you can't ignore fact it is stupidly op on any skill lvl

It's easier for bad and average players to do well with the likes of glaive, lhb and the greatswords though.

Also, a question for you guys who thinks it's op. Did you play when it had polestagger? I was long awlpike hero back then, and that was op, and I had no problems admitting that, and lobbied for its removal. Now I find it rather balanced.

[Osiris]

To be fair Teeth was acting like a lil girl that day Oh look how OP this is and "that was easy" etc etc for like 10 rounds ^^ What you seem to not notice teeth is that your surrounded by team mates 80% of the time and while you rape with the kills its not the OP weapon that's doing it. Its usually the fact that in a gank you get the best and hardest hit in with the range and speed of the thing. I remember one incident very clear there was me and two team mates on a bridge vs you and two team mates on a bridge. you stabbed one of my team mates in the side as he went to attack and killed him then my other team mate decided to team hit me in the back dropping my block as you stabbed and then he died. you then started talking about the weapon being op etc when it really has little to do with it


Long story short im not denying your skill teeth or that your one of the better polearmers but most 2d polearms are only really great when surrounded by team mates. Unless you can kick great jumpspin and do all the other crap that only the great players can do then your probably going to lose a duel I only fear stabby polearms when in the hands of a few people or in the middle of a group vs group or gank situation. apart from the awlpike i feel they are pretty well balanced.

[Bulzur]

I fear awlpike more than i fear longspear or pike, may it be in strat battle or in EU1.

I can chamber the longspear or the pike, if i'm lucky enough.
I can die in one hit if i try to chamber an awlpike.

I'm one of the people ivani4 converted, tired of all the blocking duels. Just gets boring, even though playing safe is often the best choice.



Still believe awlpike and other 2d polearms are okay. At least, the player doesn't have any range protection, unlike all thoses rondel freaks.

[Teeth]

To be fair Teeth was acting like a lil girl that day Oh look how OP this is and "that was easy" etc etc for like 10 rounds ^^ What you seem to not notice teeth is that your surrounded by team mates 80% of the time and while you rape with the kills its not the OP weapon that's doing it. Its usually the fact that in a gank you get the best and hardest hit in with the range and speed of the thing. I remember one incident very clear there was me and two team mates on a bridge vs you and two team mates on a bridge. you stabbed one of my team mates in the side as he went to attack and killed him then my other team mate decided to team hit me in the back dropping my block as you stabbed and then he died. you then started talking about the weapon being op etc when it really has little to do with it


Long story short im not denying your skill teeth or that your one of the better polearmers but most 2d polearms are only really great when surrounded by team mates. Unless you can kick great jumpspin and do all the other crap that only the great players can do then your probably going to lose a duel I only fear stabby polearms when in the hands of a few people or in the middle of a group vs group or gank situation. apart from the awlpike i feel they are pretty well balanced.

Okay, so because I do not solo duel round the fringes of the map like all the 2h heroes do, a very high performance is caused by me teamplaying instead of the weapon? You say it yourself, 'you get the best and hardest hit in' which is entirely because of the weapon. The point is, they are really, really, really fucking great when surrounded by teammates. In a 10 vs 10 group situation which is usually the case at the start of the round, I would sit back until it got a little messy. Then I'd hop in, zigzagging around and pow, pow, pow, I'd get six kills by stabbing most people once, occasionally twice. Not that it matters because the time it takes to do a follow up stab after getting a hit in is very little. The speed at which these weapons can do that is unlike any other weapon. With a pike it would be a safer process perhaps, but way slower.

It is not that hard to surround yourself with some teammates, but in other situations they are awesome too. In a ganking situation they are very easy weapons for finishing it and getting the kill. In a getting ganked situation it is very easy to get out alive with target switching and quick stabs netting you kills. When I say very easy I don't mean that you will pull it off each time, but it is definitely easier to survive ganks than with almost any other weapon. In a 1 vs 1 situation it is not great, but hardly bad. You can throw in some overheads, jumpstabs, wiggles, fake stab glances and kicks, which allows you to have a very good chance. Sure these last two situations require quite a high degree of skill and experience, but doing good when fighting with your team does really not. As it is mostly point and click and even an average player would be able to rack up kills quickly, which very quickly tilts the chances of victory for a round towards your team.

And yes, my chat behaviour is very obnoxious, but it does help create awareness of this bullshit and it is simply true. I am literally amazed all the time by the sheer effectivity and ease of using these weapons.

[Osiris]

yes teeth but you could do that with most weapons, i agree that awlpike is op but most normal players don't rape with the other 2d. polearms. for me a weapon is op if it can be abused by the average player (like awl and rondel)  i take op posts from the top tier players with a pinch of salt because they can pull that shit off with most weapons.

the fact you get lots of kills with a support weapon while using it as a support weapon with high skill level doesn't say much about its OPness

[Kafein]

As weapons with one of the highest pierce damage in the game, it's normal they tend to be extremely powerful because they don't really pay that damage in any other way than losing two attack directions, which is not that much when you can stab like a sewing machine. The problem with the awlpike in particular is how much more damage you do compared to other weapons. I would be fine personally if all weapons were balanced around that amount of damage, but right now the awlpike and a few equivalents are the outliers and need either to pay that damage advantage more dearly either to be put back in check, by buffing other weapons for example. To OHK people in ganks is an absolutely critical feat and that doesn't seem to reflect on the other stats of the weapon.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Morningstar
weapon length: 82
weight: 3.7
difficulty: 14
speed rating: 92
weapon length: 82
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 38 pierce
slots: 2
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield

Awlpike
weapon length: 165
weight: 2.5
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 91
weapon length: 165
thrust damage: 33 pierce
swing damage: 20 blunt
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback

2D poles are overrated, both in ganks and duels.

[Rebelyell]

Morningstar
weapon length: 82
weight: 3.7
difficulty: 14
speed rating: 92
weapon length: 82
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 38 pierce
slots: 2
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield

Awlpike
weapon length: 165
weight: 2.5
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 91
weapon length: 165
thrust damage: 33 pierce
swing damage: 20 blunt
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback

2D poles are overrated, both in ganks and duels.

short unbalanced 2h and long and fast polearm GJ and dont forget abiut op 2h stab

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

short unbalanced 2h and long and fast polearm GJ and dont forget abiut op 2h stab

Yes it is somewhat short, but 2h animations add a decent amount of reach, even to the swings, that's 5 more pierce, the morningstar got bonus to shield, the morningstar is faster and weights more. Sure it lacks a stab, but the awlpike lacks swings, and the morningstar sure as fuck makes up for the short reach and the lack of a stab with the other stats.

[Gurnisson]

Morningstar is an underrated weapon. That beast does 41 pierce at +3. That's sick!

[Rebelyell]

Yes it is somewhat short, but 2h animations add a decent amount of reach, even to the swings, that's 5 more pierce, the morningstar got bonus to shield, the morningstar is faster and weights more. Sure it lacks a stab, but the awlpike lacks swings, and the morningstar sure as fuck makes up for the short reach and the lack of a stab with the other stats.

It is good weapon far from op anyway not i line with alwpike In my opinion

[Teeth]

Zlisch, make an 18/21 awlpike stf and then whatever your favoured morningstar build is, play both on battle until you have a 100 kills on the site and post the results. Not saying low kill K/D is a perfect measure of effectiveness, but it's the best we've got. I am fairly sure that a player like you will outperform the morningstar with an awlpike in this simple test.

[Rebelyell]

Morningstar is an underrated weapon. That beast does 41 pierce at +3. That's sick!

there is lot of underated 2h weapons

[Grumbs]

I'd like to see the other polearm swing directions to be more reliable in a team fight. The overhead change was a good step in the right direction, but it still bounces off guys a lot when they are near you, same with swings. The thing with stab is that its an attack type that is incredibly reliable. I don't have to worry a single bit about if it will bounce off anything around me (except in front), and it only does damage in 1 part of the screen, right in the centre. With polearm swings they will bounce off guys and do damage in a big arc. Then you have overhead which hits to the right side and bounces off guys behind

Then you would have fewer people taking stabbing weapons for team fighting and get some more variety

About 2d poles..I felt they were comparatively junk tier for ages, and now they finally get more of their length being useful and they are OP? Look at 2 hand and 1 hand stabs and you will see its just a strong attack across the board. If they nerf pole stab while leaving 2 hand and 1 hand the same that will just be pathetic. If they nerf all stabs that will hurt poles more because thats a huge part of what they do. They stab and make you run slower because of their length (length that doesn't actually necessarily equate to longer reach)

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Zlisch, make an 18/21 awlpike stf and then whatever your favoured morningstar build is, play both on battle until you have a 100 kills on the site and post the results. Not saying low kill K/D is a perfect measure of effectiveness, but it's the best we've got. I am fairly sure that a player like you will outperform the morningstar with an awlpike in this simple test.

I might get a better result with an awlpike, but I'm saying they're about equally good, and that the awlpike AND morningstar are fairly balanced weapons, but I've had way more playing time with 2d poles than 3d 2hs.