Suggestions to re-balance throwing.

[Ronin]

Well I'm not gonna try and stop anyone CRPG seems to be doing better and better these days

Yeah since crpg uses a very similiar system to drugs, to make people addicted; it won't be at all. But in this case farewell to me, and a few people who are invulnerable to get addicted.

Edit:

The throwing nerf was the best thing that happened all year. lol

Yes, for robocops cheap shot drew.

[Paul]

PT already influences shot speed and thus range alot.

[Cheap_Shot]

PT already influences shot speed and thus range alot.

Really? That's good. I haven't noticed it as is though. What's the formula for that?

Edit: Modified the discussion list to reflect new info.

[Shpongled]

Yup.

When the patch hit I had mw lances and was having a blast, even if i had to use war darts 4/5th of the time to save up to pay for them. The entire naked wardart grind was fun in itself, and was worth being able to use my lances the occasional round.

Then I log in and instead of a sword and 9 lances which I could re-use, I had a sword and one lance which didn't kill anybody and I couldn't pick up again if I missed. I quit for about a week, then came back and respecced my looms to a sword and light xbow. This was infinitely more effective and fun.

I have now started a 1h throwing + shield character, and I simply do not see how it is feasible. I am going to try, but combination of stack size, slot use and the necessity of low power throw reduces the effectiveness from previous patch by, I would estimate, about 90%.

Halve stack size = 50%

Double slot cost = 25%

Half powerthrow (10 > 5) = 12.5%

Add in wpf restrictions for armor and the lack of any other thrown weapons on the ground.

It is a sorry, sorry day for throwers.

[Tzar]

Cant remmeber the last time i saw a thrower 

Anyways good luck 

[Timotheusthereal]

Are you some kind of comic worker C_S?

Thus I agree mostly with your points of buffing throwing!

[Paul]

Newest research showed that:

actual_shot_speed = shot_speed * sqrt((PT * 0.1) + 1.0) * 1.2

That means a PT 10 thrower has about 140% starting projectile speed compared to a PT 0 weakling.
That means with neglecting friction and with starting+end point of the throw at the same height the maximum throw distance(45 degree angle) would increase by a factor of 2.

[Thomek]

and this was always the problem of powerthrow.

It adds:

projectile speed
projectile damage
unlocks higher damage weapons

I dunno if it also adds short time between throws..

At the same time wpf had minimum impact compared to powerthrow.

My suggestion was to do a behind the interface multiplier of throwing wpf, at the same time nerfing throwing weapon damage generally. Then you would be able to choose if you would be a high damage or high precision thrower by choosing an agi/wpf build or str/powerthrow build.

But not both..

[Lorenzo_of_Iberia]

So by the same logic bows should become less powerful the more accurate you get?

[Paul]

There already is a "behind-the-scenes" multiplier for throwing wpf, just like with crossbow skill.

[victis honor]

Sadly since the nerf nuke hit throwing i have not had as much fun playing as before the patch.  I tried staying a thrower a few weeks after the patch hit but i gave up on it even as a gimped i whas not usefull.  I coud understand the reduction in stacks (12 heavy throwing axes + a 2hander is a bit much) but the way throwing whas nerfed is just stupid.  The same thing as archers woud have been enough and whas thus handled by the slot system, the accuracy and range nerf alongside it  whas just to much. In fact the accuracy shoud have been increased looking at the ammount of ammo we have not decreased, using 2 slots will give you 4 shots fo prety good weapon or 8 wardarts, looking at the other ranged it gives you 24 steel bolts or 30 bodkin arrows if using the biggest (slotwise) weapons, if using the standard crossbow or strongbow it also gives then a melee weapon alongside all that ammo even a 2hander....   Throwing also increases the danger to the player that is not involved in crossbows or archery since they can fire from a safe distance, throwers are usually in the thick of it or close enough to it to need good armour and melee to support it, this takes atleast 1slot and most of the time 2 (polearm, 2hander or sword and board).

There are two options to throwing, remove it alltogether (all but done in current state anyway) or give it some love next patch, there are plenty of examples given that will not make it overpowered.


ps. almost exclusively  used heavy throwing axes since i coud use them, i never used lances.


edit

whats whit having a 4 throwing spear stack but only 3 jardis-javelins?

[Joelturuz]

whats whit having a 4 throwing spear stack but only 3 jardis-javelins?

Well, all throwing weapons which have a quiver showing the ammo have been made to have only as much ammo as a full quiver shows. The jarids also have 4+ damage and +1 missile speed.

I finally tried throwing myself and I have to agree that it feels quite weak. While I prefer them as sidearms and think that the throwing axes having just 2 ammo is fine as I've used them in melee as well quite succesfully, having a quiver of darts have just 4 is ridiculous. That's not enough to even kill anybody. And don't get me started on 2 slot javelins with only 3 shots.

In my opinion Throwers should have to make a choice (or maybe some kind of mix) about either having good damage and little ammo or more ammo but less damage. Same could apply to accuracy, to a certain extent.
Here's an example:
How things are now
Axes
- little ammo (2)
- good damage

Darts
- still little ammo (4)
- low damage

How I'd prefer things to be
Axes
- little ammo (2)
- good damage

Darts
- more ammo (6?)
- low damage

Haven't thought on how to deal with high damage and a bit more ammo having throwing weapons such as the throwing spears. I do understand why getting 4 ammo for 2 slots isn't attractive though.
If the slots would be dropped to 1 for all throwing, including the "better" ones, it'd go a long way. After all, throwing lance only has 1 ammo now and it might not even hit and jarids still need at least 2 shots to kill (if none of those end up in the shield, that is).
Naturally weapon's secondary mode affects how good it's other aspects are. Can't have the cake and eat it too.

[Thomek]

There already is a "behind-the-scenes" multiplier for throwing wpf, just like with crossbow skill.

Aha :-)

So it shouldn't be a big deal to tweak it then.. :-) Any chance of telling us what it is?

[Torp]

and this was always the problem of powerthrow.

It adds:

projectile speed
projectile damage
unlocks higher damage weapons

I dunno if it also adds short time between throws..

At the same time wpf had minimum impact compared to powerthrow.

My suggestion was to do a behind the interface multiplier of throwing wpf, at the same time nerfing throwing weapon damage generally. Then you would be able to choose if you would be a high damage or high precision thrower by choosing an agi/wpf build or str/powerthrow build.

But not both..

agreed... my 3 pt thrower does no dmg - fair enough, but yet it has no accuracy either! (i have quite alot of wpf)

[dontgothere]

hi

There is probably one build out there that does more throwing damage than I do, but there is probably not more than one.

ARTIEstrongestmanINTHEWORLD:

STR:  38
AGI: 3

Throw wpf: 107

Athletics: 1
PT: 12

After retire, though, I'm going to aim for 13 PT and 0 Athletics.

I haven't played in a couple weeks cuz my pc broke, but before I left the patch definitely hurt.

Before it, my throwing lances would insta-kill 1/2 the time.  Now it's more like 1/6, and harder to aim.
But the worst thing is that the throwing spears and the like take-up two slots in the inventory -- I could live with any nerf besides that, because then at least I still had enough shots with enough damage to make it workable.
Now there's really no point to doing anything but loading-up on war darts and spamming from a distance, which, without any melee stats, is about as effective as being a low-level archer.

I think that "low intensity" throwing needs to be reigned in, but for pure throwing builds these changes are crippling and that's not cool.


p.s. cheap-shot i lurv yer drawrings