Serious 1h Stab Discussion

[Kafein]

I've done 1 wpf plenty with this new stab and I can tell you it is very fast still. If you think any 1 hander is slow you aren't used to using actual slow weapons. I'm not going to go into how well I do, I'll just say I do as well as with my 160 polearm

Actual slow weapon usually have badass damage that largely compensates for the slower speed. Why ? Because higher damage means hitting earlier without bouncing, and hitting earlier is hitting effectively faster. Also known as : why I spam Great Maul sideswings while turning around and win. To go back to polearms, replace Great Maul with basically anything in the LWA-elegant poleaxe range and you got something that hits earlier than any 1h if played correctly.

[San]

Nice to hear about some people's opinions. For some, I'm unsure if they're talking about the effectiveness of the best stabbing 1hs or the stab animation for every 1h, even the ones with low pierce damage.

@kafein

I feel the same, but also for 1h stabs that seem to get a good hit earlier/later than they should. I would guess that the 1hs around 21-24pierce would have a bit more trouble around the extremes of their sweetspots without having 9-10PS. That's why I believe toning down the artificial stab damage buff is a nice first step, then see if there are any additional tweaks that need to be made to the animation.

[Grumbs]

I've only really played with the high stab damage swords like Scottish Sword or Long Esparda. I doubt I would play with 1 wpf if I didn't have the stab to abuse. The stabbing swords should have less damage, I'm playing with 1 wpf / unloomed and people are dying in a couple stabs. I'd take away all the swings with these if the damage stays the same, make them have alternate mode like daggers maybe

[Fartface]

I've done 1 wpf plenty with this new stab and I can tell you it is very fast still. If you think any 1 hander is slow you aren't used to using actual slow weapons. I'm not going to go into how well I do, I'll just say I do as well as with my 160 polearm

I´m going to have to say Grumbs went like 22-2 with 1 wpp long espada, just proving his point.

[Osiris]

1 person going 22-2 one time doesn't prove much. If it was THAT op most 1h players would be raping everyone. That said the high pierce 1h could use a slight nerf.

[Nightmare798]

1 person going 22-2 one time doesn't prove much. If it was THAT op most 1h players would be raping everyone. That said the high pierce 1h could use a slight nerf.

if 2h gets fixed too then i am fine with it.

[Falka]

i can assure you you will do horribly with 1 wpf, unless you go full agility and dagger. even at 140wpf in 1h sometimes feel slow with my long espada.

This is not true. Sometimes after a few duels ppl take my 1h sword instead of their 2h/pole and quite often they're much more dangerous than with their primary weapon.

As a 1h/shielder I don't see side sword or any other stabbing 1h sword OP per se (some of them can be OP in comparison to other 1h swords though). I get more or less the same scores with niuweidao, scimitar, grosse and side sword, if any of them I'd say that niuweidao is most effective and "OP", not side sword. So from my point of view 1h stab is hardly game breaking, especially in comparison to insta pole stab attacking from the air But, well, I don't play any other class, so quite possible that I'm biased

[Nightmare798]

This is not true. Sometimes after a few duels ppl take my 1h sword instead of their 2h/pole and quite often they're much more dangerous than with their primary weapon.

As a 1h/shielder I don't see side sword or any other stabbing 1h sword OP per se (some of them can be OP in comparison to other 1h swords though). I get more or less the same scores with niuweidao, scimitar, grosse and side sword, if any of them I'd say that niuweidao is most effective and "OP", not side sword. So from my point of view 1h stab is hardly game breaking, especially in comparison to insta pole stab attacking from the air But, well, I don't play any other class, so quite possible that I'm biased

we are talking about 1wpf. i remember how slow i swung that short sword as peasant with 50wpf and i dont even want to think about having 1wpf.

[Falka]

we are talking about 1wpf

This is not true. Sometimes after a few duels ppl take my 1h sword instead of their 2h/pole and quite often they're much more dangerous than with their primary weapon.

I doubt that dedicated 2h or polearmers have more than 1 wpf in 1h 

[Nightmare798]

I doubt that dedicated 2h or polearmers have more than 1 wpf in 1h 

maybe they do. what about close quarter sidearm? i heard poles are pretty hard to use in confined places.

[Bulzur]

OP 1h stab.

I'm happy they got a new very good stab animation now, mind you. The previous one was much harder to use correctly.
This one may be a bit too quick though, as people already said : no preperation time.
But they mainly need to balance the pierce damage on most/all swords to even it out. And by balancing, i clearly mean nerfing.

What's wrong with 1wpf 1h ? Just use a 99 speed sword, and you'll do okay.
Then try playing hoplite or longspear user with 1wpf in polearm. Your stab will get blocked so long, the ennemy will get a free overhead on you.

[Kafein]

I went 22-1 with a 1 wpf long spear, it doesn't mean the long spear is OP.

And no 1h stabs do not "prepare" any faster than polearms. The stab animation itself is faster, but the inactive time it the exact same. Without armor I can facehug a long spear user, he only needs to tap RMB to almost immediately inflict damage to me, because the instant his attack becomes active it connects with me.

[MURDERTRON]

I went 22-1 with a 1 wpf long spear, it doesn't mean the long spear is OP.

And no 1h stabs do not "prepare" any faster than polearms. The stab animation itself is faster, but the inactive time it the exact same. Without armor I can facehug a long spear user, he only needs to tap RMB to almost immediately inflict damage to me, because the instant his attack becomes active it connects with me.

But you're lying, because with 1WPF it glances most of the time.  About the first part, that is.

On the second part, you're doing a shitty job face hugging, so you're actually only hugging the space in front of his face.  Also, being naked should not be considered the norm for balancing.  I'm sure Tydeus can pull average armor rating.

[Kafein]

But you're lying, because with 1WPF it glances most of the time.  About the first part, that is.

Not with the speed bonus and opportunities that being naked gives you. Making extraordinary k/d isn't that hard to do with any weapon if you do it the easy way.

On the second part, you're doing a shitty job face hugging, so you're actually only hugging the space in front of his face.

Turning around is pointless when you can get hit faster than you can possibly block.

  Also, being naked should not be considered the norm for balancing. I'm sure Tydeus can pull average armor rating.

Yes of course but it's still bullshit to say that 1h can hit earlier because that's simply not true. Providing enough damage, you can pull off the exact same kind of shit with polearms (or even 2h for that matter). Case in point, the awlpike is a much better weapon overall than say the LEE, with that reach and polestun (stopping movement on hits).

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

The 1h thrust needs a nerf, atm there is no sense in ever rightswinging if your weapon got a pointy end and is used with one hand, amassed at the amount of bullshit I'm hearing about it though.
You can't stab when the weapon is retracting, the moment it starts glancing with the current animation is right before it is at 100% reach, which is for how long I believe stabs should be able to stab, before the buff the animation was also beyond retarded, starting to glance 50-60% into the reach it gives you. Damage is only really strong on espadas, sideswords, and scots, which (besides the sideswords) will deal very low amounts of damage swinging, and even with my 31 pierce I've yet to onehit someone with decent amounts of armor on my 4ps, 181 wpf, char (cannot say the same for my 3ps godknowshowmuchwpfand10ath 2h with a katana). Stab based 1hs are still not overpowered, they went from low to top tier 1h swords, true, but they're still only equal to the great swinging swords. You can't facehug stab someone without twirling a bit, same bit you need to twirl to do it with a 2h sword, the 1h animation makes that tiny bit of twirling extremely natural though.

Ideally the nerf should either be:
Flat -1, 2 or even 3 pierce damage on all 1hs, nerfing just a few 1hs stab would be idiotic, and shit on internal balance, either nerf all the stabs or leave them all alone.

Do a completely new animation, that extends only 75% or so as much as the current one does, but keeps the same overall speed as the current anim (so that you won't glance while still stabbing and not retracting).

Slow down the time it takes to prepare the stab quite a bit, making it as powerful as now for range stabbing, but easy to spam at facehug range.