Author Topic: I´m so tired of all of this  (Read 5815 times)

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Offline XyNox

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2013, 10:55:00 pm »
-1
It's not magic, it's experience and tenacity.
You only dodge when the archer is about to release the arrow.
-You are run in one direction to make the archer aim there,
-then imediately turn in the other direction when the bow is fully drawn, to make the archer turn there quickly, which opens the reticule,
-then turn again and this point the archer will either shoot in the wrong direction or miss because the reticule will be too open if he tries to catch up.

That's it, no need for fancy stuff or breakdancing when you should be running down the archer. This is the one sequence you should know by now if you and people like you bothered learn about all aspects of the game in your more than 3000 hours of playtime.

And guys, you can't run around a melee group if you have no speed.

Adamar you stupid my old friendcher ! Stop teaching the scrubs how to dodge ...
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Offline Sharpe

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2013, 11:01:30 pm »
0

Heh, ballsy and archer don't belong in the same sentence.   :wink:



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Low blow man Low Blow. The my old friendcher is a highly respected class, or so I'd like to think.   :D
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Offline Adamar

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2013, 11:02:26 pm »
-1
Adamar you stupid my old friendcher ! Stop teaching the scrubs how to dodge ...

They insist its impossible, make the devs feel guilty like bad parents, and we get fucked anyway.

Offline Xant

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #63 on: September 26, 2013, 04:27:27 am »
+3
No matter what you do, dodging projectiles is still always about luck. You could make the most Matrix dodge moves ever and still get hit if you're against someone who a) predicted it or b) was going to miss you before you dodged.

What makes ranged so gay in this mod is the randomness. Nobody would play a FPS where you had single-shot guns that had massive crosshairs and it was random if you hit or not. But for some reason people want to play these luck-archers in a game with the best melee.
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Offline XyNox

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #64 on: September 26, 2013, 05:18:18 am »
0
No matter what you do, dodging projectiles is still always about luck. You could make the most Matrix dodge moves ever and still get hit if you're against someone who a) predicted it or b) was going to miss you before you dodged.

What makes ranged so gay in this mod is the randomness. Nobody would play a FPS where you had single-shot guns that had massive crosshairs and it was random if you hit or not. But for some reason people want to play these luck-archers in a game with the best melee.

At very high missile speeds and very short distances, luck is involved to a certain degree of course. When a missile takes less time to reach you than human reaction time actually allows you to act, it depends on how well you predicted the enemy shot. Understanding what goes on inside the mind of the shooter helps to lower the chance of being hit tremendously though, especially at long and medium distances. As an archer I have to do it all the time and it works fine, even with 5 metric tons of arrows on my body.

The thing is, when it comes to ranged, most melees dont have that experience and thereby cant tell within wich limitations a ranged player has to predict his shots, which in turn does not allow them to counter those predictions properly. The average melee doesnt have that sort of experience because knowing how to write "omg stooped my old friendcher nerf" in chat and mashing mouse1 and mouse2 on EU3 is all they need to consider themselves pro players which are god at the game and everything that kills them is bullshit.

I am not even trying to be cynical or offensive but from my experience this is simply the case. People cant be arsed to "learn" anything new after they learned how to block, feint and use footwork. When somebody would come in here and claimed that blocking in this game is bullshit because its way to hard and is mostly luck, hell, he would get minusbombed to the moon, through the sun and then back to earth again. However, when somebody sais that dodging is a skill on its own that can be mastered to a certain degree, people go "ullululululu can I haz magic dodge machine ? ululllululu". I know exactly what Adamar is talking about in his post.

Regarding the randomness, since the last patch at least bows offer more consistent accuracy now. A nomad bow is pretty much as accurate as it can get but pays with a hefty damage penalty. At 6 PD even archers can survive headshots. Cant speak for Xbows.
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Offline Xant

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #65 on: September 26, 2013, 06:17:02 am »
0
Of course you can dodge most archers for some time by moving unpredictably - probably. That's just the thing, it doesn't matter how good you are "at dodging", it still ultimately comes down to pure chance. And the probability of getting hit randomly increases as time goes by. Not so with melee: you will only get hit if you make a mistake.
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Offline Adamar

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2013, 08:59:55 am »
-1
Or if you have more than one person taking different swings at you at the same time. Archers do have to aim at their targets, Im not sure how chance plays into that.

Offline Molly

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2013, 09:36:56 am »
0
Of course you can dodge most archers for some time by moving unpredictably - probably. That's just the thing, it doesn't matter how good you are "at dodging", it still ultimately comes down to pure chance. And the probability of getting hit randomly increases the smaller the distance to the shooter. Not so with melee: you will only get hit if you make a mistake.
ftfy.
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Offline Xant

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2013, 10:26:10 am »
0
Really? So you are as likely to be hit in ten shots as you are in one shot? The probability never increases?

Time = shots fired.
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Offline Adamar

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #69 on: September 26, 2013, 10:46:51 am »
-2
And time is also on your side, so it's not really relevant.

Offline Xant

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #70 on: September 26, 2013, 10:58:16 am »
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What.
Meaning lies as much
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as in the Haiku.

Offline XyNox

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2013, 03:07:55 pm »
-1
Really? So you are as likely to be hit in ten shots as you are in one shot? The probability never increases?

Time = shots fired.

Well benkei is right with the distance. You can take 100 shots at me and I will dodge every single one of them if those are long range shots, maybe even medium range, depending on how my reaction time is in that moment.

E: Sorry Zlisch for saying that benkei is right but its teh truths.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 04:01:16 pm by XyNox »
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Offline Xant

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2013, 03:11:21 pm »
0
Well bekei is right with the distance. You can take 100 shots at me and I will dodge every single one of them if those are long range shots, maybe even medium range, depending on how my reaction time is in that moment.
How would you know you'd dodge every single one of them?
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Offline XyNox

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2013, 03:18:40 pm »
0
How would you know you'd dodge every single one of them?

Well, this is where said experience comes into play I was mentioning earlier. I will refrain from giving away any details on how my dodging techniques work. Since this sounds like a cheap excuse though I have no problem showing it on EU3 if anyone thinks proof is needed. Just keep in mind I said "long" distance. I dont want to create the impression that I can dodge 100% at 5 meters.
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: I´m so tired of all of this
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2013, 03:22:52 pm »
+1
dodge plan

A good plan against 1 ranged, now add a few more. Keeping track of draw speeds and the release of several ranged is impossible. You can call dodging one or two archers skillful, but any more than that and we're talking chance and the difference between bad and good ranged.

I rarely move my reticule when I shoot infantry as ranged, waiting for the infantry to spazz towards the crosshair which often grants an easy headshot.
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