Training lessons and broken promises

[San]

I think 2 million on the site is fair and does a proper job of removing gold from the economy, especially since the alternative is losing 1-2 levels. 2 million is a non-trivial amount and a fixed price is better than what we have now. It took me a year to make a few million in gold without selling loompoints, so it's not an option you can just spam at will. Waiting and hoarding gold only makes people not play/play less. Auction is a roundabout way of doing this, since it only takes 2-3 people wanting it to lock others out almost permanently.

[Lt_Anders]

Why don't we just corner the market?

Make a post and we can then control, to a lesser degree, who get the training lessons and at reasonable prices.

IE: Make a Post, and people register for training lessons(assuming we stay at current rate of course). Then everyone who registers then set a price(say 1.5 mln) and they bet that. All others bow out for that week to let the registered player(by post order, i guess) get it. Most people who do training lessons are in a clan/use the forums so everyone can easily do this. Of course, if someone wishes to troll outbid them I guess they could, but they'd need some serious money to beat the collective.

[MURDERTRON]

You guys keep saying that taking ~3 million out of the economy every week has a big impact on the overal economy.  It does not.  You need to consider how much money is generated per minute, hour, day or week to truly understand it.  On a 70 person server, with everyone on 1x, 3500 gold per minute is generated.  That's not that bad, but we know multipliers exist.  When half of that 70 players are on 5x, 10500 is generated per minute.  If this happens for an hour, thats over 600000 generated in just one hour.  Of course, you can say that people are paying repairs, or someone got team balanced or joined late.  These are all true, but there can be people getting valor even more players on the server to balance that out.  You can also say that the servers are not always so populated, but then you must remember there are many other servers.  Also, each minute each player becomes that much closer to their next loom point.  So not only do you need to delete gold, you'd aim to delete the gold alternative, which are loom points.

I've been playing for a year now, and loom points are at the lowest price I have ever seen them.  They are hovering around 400000, which is proving, we are in fact, not taking enough gold out of the economy.

But I guess it is easy to use short sighted economics to lobby for something you personally want, especially when you don't back it up with numbers, just feelings.  You sound like republicans.

[Lt_Anders]

You guys keep saying that taking ~3 million out of the economy every week has a big impact on the overal economy.  It does not.  You need to consider how much money is generated per minute, hour, day or week to truly understand it.  On a 70 person server, with everyone on 1x, 3500 gold per minute is generated.  That's not that bad, but we know multipliers exist.  When half of that 70 players are on 5x, 10500 is generated per minute.  If this happens for an hour, thats over 600000 generated in just one hour.  Of course, you can say that people are paying repairs, or someone got team balanced or joined late.  These are all true, but there can be people getting valor even more players on the server to balance that out.  You can also say that the servers are not always so populated, but then you must remember there are many other servers.  Also, each minute each player becomes that much closer to their next loom point.  So not only do you need to delete gold, you'd aim to delete the gold alternative, which are loom points.

I've been playing for a year now, and loom points are at the lowest price I have ever seen them.  They are hovering around 400000, which is proving, we are in fact, not taking enough gold out of the economy.

But I guess it is easy to use short sighted economics to lobby for something you personally want, especially when you don't back it up with numbers, just feelings.  You sound like republicans.

Generated, per person. Sounds like clever Rhetoric. BTW the average multi is x2, so you should redo your math. 7000 per minute is generated or 420,000 per hour. That's 1 loom point. So, yea, 3 mln is pretty high. That's not counting repairs, mind you. So for SEVENTY people, you generate less than 1 loompoints worth of gold per hour.

Average was calculated BEFORE the new valour system, so that means it might be like 2.25, but its still right around a x2 average Multi. Murder, if you're going to pull facts, use PROPER facts.

Not to mention that that amount is distributed amongst the whole player base. For 1 day of play, that's on average, 144,000 gold generated(24 block) not counting repairs. Thats 21 days of SOLID 24 hour play to make 3 mln gold, not counting repairs.  Or if we assume an average of 5 hours per day of play, at x2, that's 100 days of play to equal 3 mln.

Player skill affects this, but for the majority...

[Phew]

"Mini respecs" should be sold as a commodity in the equipment shop. They would each allow 1 stat point, 2 skill points, or ~100wpp to be changed. Cost should be 50-100k. This way you could make small tweaks to your build without having to pony up 3 mil for a respec auction, but wholesale class changes would still be prohibitively expensive.

[MURDERTRON]

Generated, per person. Sounds like clever Rhetoric. BTW the average multi is x2, so you should redo your math. 7000 per minute is generated or 420,000 per hour. That's 1 loom point. So, yea, 3 mln is pretty high. That's not counting repairs, mind you. So for SEVENTY people, you generate less than 1 loompoints worth of gold per hour.

Average was calculated BEFORE the new valour system, so that means it might be like 2.25, but its still right around a x2 average Multi. Murder, if you're going to pull facts, use PROPER facts.

Not to mention that that amount is distributed amongst the whole player base. For 1 day of play, that's on average, 144,000 gold generated(24 block) not counting repairs. Thats 21 days of SOLID 24 hour play to make 3 mln gold, not counting repairs.  Or if we assume an average of 5 hours per day of play, at x2, that's 100 days of play to equal 3 mln.

Player skill affects this, but for the majority...

My numbers are a little off, but in the right ballpark.  Now, the thing is, you have the consider the entire market as a whole.  The time economy of a single player is not that important since it can all be bypassed by intelligent trading.  Your figure of how many months to grind 3 million gold is irrelevant since no one is grinding all of it.

That said, a secondary option to change a single point would be interesting, but the current weekly respec auction is in a good place.

[Malaclypse]

Everyone respecing to the build du jour would actually hurt everyone and take depth out of the game.

If I were to be able to afford a respec, I'd go 18/21 cavalry/all melee profs/crossbow hybrid or 15/24 of the same (to greater effect but with the loss of Long Maul/Mallet use). Would add a world of depth to my experience, at least, and I don't see how that would hurt anyone (besides in regards to them getting couched or otherwise killed by me, which happens sometimes on my current 18/24 build anyhow).

[Teeth]

Imagine if everyone was at a fixed level like 35 and you could freely respec and play whatever you wanted at all times, also without looms so you could freely use any weapon you wanted without being at a disadvantage.

No_bullshit_just_play

[Prpavi]

Imagine if everyone was at a fixed level like 35 and you could freely respec and play whatever you wanted at all times, also without looms so you could freely use any weapon you wanted without being at a disadvantage.

No_bullshit_just_play

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[TheAppleSauceMan]

Imagine if everyone was at a fixed level like 35 and you could freely respec and play whatever you wanted at all times, also without looms so you could freely use any weapon you wanted without being at a disadvantage.

No_bullshit_just_play

Sounds basically like Native with different items.

[Prpavi]

Sounds basically like Native with different items.

Not really you still have the freedom of choosing your gear and builds but without being at a disadvantage due to some peoples overgrinding and strat farming.

[MURDERTRON]

Everyone would go horse archer with 6 PS... it would be terrible.

[Swaggart]

Sounds basically like Native with different items.

Not if you get to make your own build like he said.

[Teeth]

Sounds basically like Native with different items.

Sounds like you're not very appreciative of all the devs efforts if you think Native + leveling and looms = cRPG.

For me the attractive part of cRPG is freedom in choice of build and gear, apart from much better balance, much more enjoyable pubgame and some very considerable improvements to the combat system. Now I get, well I actually I don't but I have been told, that for some people looms and levels are an encouragement to keep playing, but at this point don't the limitations that leveling and looms offer encourage more people to not play than it encourages people to play? Sure, for me personally having 3 level 30+ characters + a stf and access to a decently sized armoury goes a long way into taking away these senseless limitations, but still I can imagine some people can't be bothered to play the only build they are able to play at a competitive level.

[Heroin]

"Mini respecs" should be sold as a commodity in the equipment shop. They would each allow 1 stat point, 2 skill points, or ~100wpp to be changed. Cost should be 50-100k. This way you could make small tweaks to your build without having to pony up 3 mil for a respec auction, but wholesale class changes would still be prohibitively expensive.

This would actually completely appease me in my particular situation. I'd spend 200k for two of these to get my WPF back out of xbow, and I'd be completely satisfied with my build. The fact that it's going to cost me 3 million to make this minor tweak is my major gripe.

But honestly, I still think respecs should happen more often, for other people who's builds need bigger changes. It'd probably take MORE money out of the economy if they happened daily than it does now, AND it would make the game more palatable for people who've already invested 4000+ hours of their life to this mod, and don't want to grind another 100 days at 5 hours a day just to be able to afford to change their build. That type of investment of time makes people just want to say screw it, I'm gonna go work out and date girls instead.