Attacked again is Raven's neutral area?

[Artyem]

Seems contradictory to let FCC stage armies to march into our lands in Raven territory, and then allow them to retreat back into your lands after provoking us.

Literally nothing was preventing you from doing the very same thing, and almost the very same exact thing has been done from Raven territory by the LCO alliance.  There's nothing contradicting about it, if FCC had attacked you in neutral territory we would be giving them the same treatment.

Initially it was just LL, but despite the huge stink that was made over it you guys thought you could get away with it too.  Next time read the very clear and even pictorial statements that quite definitely read:

In case it has not been made clear. Raven and Dracul territories are NEUTRAL territory. Any person traveling inside our territory is under our protection for trade. By attacking inside our territory your trade and passage access will be revoked.

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It does not matter. Raven and Dracul regard all parties who have trade access or passage access as traders in our lands and are therefor under our protection. This rule applies to all who have access to our lands (TKoV, Frisia, FCC, Hospitaller, Occitan, SS/FUPA, Chaos, FPF and MB). If any one of those listed factions is attacked in our territory, we will reinforce the trader and revoke the offending parties access.

[CrazyCracka420]

Any person traveling inside our territory is under our protection for trade. By attacking inside our territory your trade and passage access will be revoked.

So what about armies that march through Raven lands, to deal hostilities in our lands?  Are those cleared for "trade" in Raven lands?  What happens when these non-trade armies retreat back to your lands after provoking our hostilities by marching into our lands?  Seems like harboring of our enemies to me.  They stage their attacks from Raven lands, poke our lands, and then retreat back to the safety of your lands.

Somehow I don't think that's what Relit meant with his statements about allowing traders neutrality in their lands.

If you're going to allow hostile armies to march through Raven lands, into our lands, you can't expect us to chase them and then give up pursuit once they hit the imaginary line in the sand that Raven has carved.  It's contradictory at best, and harboring our enemies at worst.

If they aren't a trading army, they shouldn't be expecting Raven to protect them.  Once they send an army through your lands and into our lands, they should no longer be part of your free trade passage statement, they're clearly a hostile army.

[Relit]

So what about armies that march through Raven lands, to deal hostilities in our lands?  Are those cleared for "trade" in Raven lands?  What happens when these non-trade armies retreat back to your lands after provoking our hostilities by marching into our lands?  Seems like harboring of our enemies to me.  They stage their attacks from Raven lands, poke our lands, and then retreat back to the safety of your lands. 

Somehow I don't think that's what Relit meant with his statements about allowing traders neutrality in their lands. 

If you're going to allow hostile armies to march through Raven lands, into our lands, you can't expect us to chase them and then give up pursuit once they hit the imaginary line in the sand that Raven has carved.  It's contradictory at best, and harboring our enemies at worst. 

If they aren't a trading army, they shouldn't be expecting Raven to protect them.  Once they send an army through your lands and into our lands, they should no longer be part of your free trade passage statement, they're clearly a hostile army.

Artyem nailed it on the head, you need to reread what he posted. We regard ALL ARMIES REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY ACTUALLY ARE AS TRADERS WHEN INSIDE OUR LANDS IF THEY HAVE PERMISSION TO BE THERE. It does not get anymore clear than that.

Our land. Our rules. Even if Hospitaller wanted to chase said armies into our territory now, its a moot point because your access to our lands is revoked and if we see any Hospitaller armies moving in it will be considered a hostile act against us.

You seem to be the only person vocally with a problem here. Occitan has used this same strategy against FCC. The system works just fine. It revolves around the simple of idea of 'respect'. Respect our borders or do not come around our lands.

[CrazyCracka420]

So you allow people to pick fights and then run back to Raven territory for protection.  Good to know.

Your stance of neutrality, is in fact not neutral at all in these circumstances.

[Relit]

So you allow people to pick fights and then run back to Raven territory for protection.  Good to know.

Your stance of neutrality, is in fact not neutral at all in these circumstances.

You need to speak with your leadership, as Turboflex has already addressed this with Peppovitch. Your line of reasoning is flawed, you seem to be under the assumption that you can dictate to us how we can run our lands. You are wrong.

[CrazyCracka420]

I'm not trying to dictate how Raven runs their lands.  I'm pointing out that you are allowing hostile armies to march through your lands into ours, and then protecting them when they retreat back to your lands from our armies.

[Relit]

I'm not trying to dictate how Raven runs their lands.  I'm pointing out that you are allowing hostile armies to march through your lands into ours, and then protecting them when they retreat back to your lands from our armies.

Hostile to you. Merchants to us. There are many different perspectives here. Respect our 'imaginary line in the sand' and there wont be a issue.

[BaleOhay]

The best part is show me where we have been hostile to anyone with the three armies that went thru.we did not attack or do anything besides walk to.raven trade then wall to our city... lets be honest your issue is us preventing you from easily taking that city from us.

[Turboflex]

This is getting silly, can you guys chill out and stop this spergfest? Peppovitch knows what's up.

[Aderyn]

huseby... i told you whats up, why are you still harrassing them over this

[Keshian]

So you allow people to pick fights and then run back to Raven territory for protection.  Good to know.

Your stance of neutrality, is in fact not neutral at all in these circumstances.

One correction - chesty never actually entered hospitaller lands - the only one who entered was me from ravens lands and I went straight to ichamur.  No one made aggression and then "retreated" into their lands.  he took a  bunch of my gear to get me down to 0 crates after he had already sold all his goods in and then started heading back to our lands without ever leaving ravens territory.

[Chyv]

One correction - chesty never actually entered hospitaller lands - the only one who entered was me from ravens lands and I went straight to ichamur.  No one made aggression and then "retreated" into their lands.  he took a  bunch of my gear to get me down to 0 crates after he had already sold all his goods in and then started heading back to our lands without ever leaving ravens territory.

Well thats clearly not true considering when we attacked Chesty he was west of all Raven fiefs, meaning that either he was coming from the the steppes or heading to the steppes.

[Relit]

Well thats clearly not true considering when we attacked Chesty he was west of all Raven fiefs, meaning that either he was coming from the the steppes or heading to the steppes.

I can confirm via 2 different Raven members reports that Chesty never left our lands. Was he going to? I have no idea.

[Chyv]

I can confirm via 2 different Raven members reports that Chesty never left our lands. Was he going to? I have no idea.

I agree he never left as we discuseed, it was the fact that he was west of all your fiefs and the only reason to be there was to be leaving your lands and to head to the steppes. Not trying to justify attacking in your lands which we should not have done, just calling out some of the BS being spewed.

[Relit]

I agree he never left as we discuseed, it was the fact that he was west of all your fiefs and the only reason to be there was to be leaving your lands and to head to the steppes. Not trying to justify attacking in your lands which we should not have done, just calling out some of the BS being spewed.

I am also not trying to step on any toes here, just tossing out the information that I have so everybody can come to their own conclusions.