Author Topic: To our fellow muricans  (Read 25861 times)

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Offline Swaggart

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #390 on: September 13, 2013, 09:07:10 pm »
0
"Vast majority of society" only gives two shits about what they are going to eat for dinner, and Miley Cyrus's ass. Being ignorant of history and philosophy, and "holding it as some sort of sign of superiority, is hilarious" too. As to reading obscure books - I have lots of other literature, but these were semi-related.

Philosophy and history are two entirely separate matters. I've read heavily of the latter, couldn't give two shits about the former. And no, I'm not pretending to have some sort of superiority, only you did by claiming that I'm young (even though I'm not) and that I haven't read many books (even though I have) simply because I dismiss philosophy.


Quote
So here is my answer to your question: You need to read Plato, because you will not understand Nietzsche. When you understand the basics - you move to something more complicated. You don't build a rocket, before understanding Newton's 500 year old theory of gravitation. And to have just a little bit wider view on Syria, it would help to read about other civil wars - it might not be relevant, but it will not hurt, even if it is 2000 year old Roman civil war.

I haven't even a clue as to how you can say that Muslim sectarian violence related to today's geopolitical situation has anything even remotely to do with Rome, or even anything that occurred 2000 years ago as Islam wasn't even conceived of then.

Offline Kafein

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #391 on: September 13, 2013, 09:18:00 pm »
+2
I haven't even a clue as to how you can say that Muslim sectarian violence related to today's geopolitical situation has anything even remotely to do with Rome, or even anything that occurred 2000 years ago as Islam wasn't even conceived of then.

Syria's situation doesn't start and end with islam. Revolutions and civil wars remain revolutions and civil wars even centuries apart.

Offline Armpit_Sweat

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #392 on: September 13, 2013, 10:15:59 pm »
+2
Philosophy and history are two entirely separate matters. I've read heavily of the latter, couldn't give two shits about the former. And no, I'm not pretending to have some sort of superiority, only you did by claiming that I'm young (even though I'm not) and that I haven't read many books (even though I have) simply because I dismiss philosophy.

This:

Also, quoting other people is a sign that one can't conceive intellectual though of their own.

You implied I am incapable of thinking myself, because I use other peoples thoughts. That is pretty much a case of "pretending to have some sort of superiority" in my book.

The only thing, that bothers me in Syrian war, is how much unneeded suffering and death it will result. The Roman civil war is still relevant, as well as French and Bolshevik revolutions, since the outcome is the same every time: years of repressions, arrests, lynchings and terror against anyone who matters; hunger, hard labor and insecurity for common people. Whatever they are doing in Syria - that is not a way of building a better future. Never was, never will be.

But let's just say, that it is all my opinion. I don't really want to do it anymore. I have 9 days off, ahead of me, and I don't want to focus on any negative stuff :) Happy weekend everyone, also you Swaggart! Fuck philosophy up it's smart ass! I want to have fun! :D
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Offline Xant

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #393 on: September 13, 2013, 11:15:04 pm »
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simply because I dismiss philosophy.
Define 'philosophy'.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline EponiCo

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #394 on: September 13, 2013, 11:31:39 pm »
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Who's the "they" that failed to take "their" situation at home/the amount of resistance into account? The military doesn't decide to go to war, they get sent to war and then they make do with the tools they're given by the government. If you're saying that Bush didn't think it through, then yes, I agree. I agree with the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, but not with the way it was carried out.

Fair enough, although I think we'd very much disagree on how it should have been carried out. Thing is, I don't believe Bush didn't think it through because he is really stupid (well, maybe he is but he had advisors and allies) but because there's really too much to account for. And it's very likely Obama will make the same mistakes or different ones, and in the end it will just not work out. But who knows, maybe it does. I still don't believe it. Or perhaps it's still better than the alternative.
I was just frustrated in the first post about how often people derive pride from refusing to think about things. "Livestock isn't important for Syria" is a good answer (Is it true? I don't know). "We'll make sure not to disrupt agriculture", too. "Who thinks about livestock?" isn't.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 12:01:21 am by EponiCo »

Offline Kafein

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #395 on: September 14, 2013, 01:27:11 am »
+2
Define 'philosophy'.

Define "define"

Offline zagibu

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #396 on: September 14, 2013, 02:08:03 am »
+2
Define Xant:
a) Troll
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Offline Xant

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #397 on: September 14, 2013, 03:52:28 am »
+2
Define "define"
Alright.

: to explain the meaning of (a word, phrase, etc.)

: to show or describe (someone or something) clearly and completely

: to show the shape, outline, or edge of (something) very clearly


That was easy. Next?
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Swaggart

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #398 on: September 14, 2013, 06:46:33 am »
+2
Syria's situation doesn't start and end with islam. Revolutions and civil wars remain revolutions and civil wars even centuries apart.

Absolutely true, which is why I said there are current geopolitical concerns involved in this as well. But he referred to it as a 2000 year old Roman civil war, which I find extremely hard to connect.

Armpit have a nice vacation. I like to argue for the sake of arguing sometimes, don't take anything personally.

Offline Lord_Bernie_of_Voodoo

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #399 on: September 14, 2013, 07:46:55 am »
+2
Everyone responding to this thread, define "Pretentious."

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #400 on: September 14, 2013, 07:51:54 am »
0
Wow, 9 pages, this is literally 1/20th of a choas thread
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Kajia

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #401 on: September 14, 2013, 12:33:24 pm »
0
Everyone responding to this thread, define "Pretentious."
(click to show/hide)
I want my potato.


Strawberry ice cream being the best ice cream is true subjectively. Saying it rains outside when it isn't raining is not subjectively false, it's objectively false.
you want a practical application?
best ice cream - best is an abstract term that only really makes sense when giving an opinion. I can not see why and how your ice cream should be the best, I can not smell or taste best. you can't argue for the bestness of your ice cream, because that is sense-less
rain outside - rain refers to some worldy happening. it has a place and a time, you can examine it. I could verify if it is actually real, with my senses.
notice how the semantic meaning of sense-less actually makes sense? because you can tell if your senses aren't being used.

one practical application is to avoid such terms. "truth" is such a term.

Quote
Indeed, it is useful to define what people mean by "bombing Syria" when discussing it; but you will be talking about things that make more sense, such as asking them which military targets would be bombed and how effective they think it would be and what the civilian casualties would be.
well, fine. to you bombing Syria means different things than to me, which still proves my point that we all have different associations. I hope you see that now.

Quote
You would not be discussing whether or not they mean bombing the Syrian culture.
How is this relevant? Obviously your average American won't know much about Syrian culture, if that's what you're getting at (your text is very, ah, wandering to say the least and it's hard to follow what your bottom line is at times...) - but so what? What relevance does that have with them talking about bombing "Syria"?
but somehow we do have a discussion about Syrian culture, right? I know it was me who brought it up, and it is relevant, because same as with Iraq, Vietnam, even Germany in two world wars, war in any country will result in losses you can hardly measure in human lives. things can not be understood seperate from another: history and culture and the ground people live on influence how they behave and react. if you attack it or disrespect it, people will hate you for it. it will (and it happens all over the place, in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.) create terrorism. the mere presence of the US troops and military bases in the middle east is an affront to Islamic people, because of their believes. we are unbelievers in holy lands.
of course it is also stimulated through secret weapon exports, but you probably know that yourself.

I'm getting a litte impatient too, for all this derogatory and misleading talk about peoples you seem to have no respect for and interest in. frankly, I don't believe Iraq or Afghanistan invasions were in good intentions at all. and based on lies too. they were fought for oil and poppies, with the poor or desperate people dying on both sides.
violence breeds more violence.
there is a simple truth for you.

Syria's situation doesn't start and end with islam. Revolutions and civil wars remain revolutions and civil wars even centuries apart.
this too. surely the whole middle east has some religious problems, but we often forget the economic forces and the social structures that make up dictatorships and opposing groups. reoccurring patterns can be studied and applied to guess what's coming.


Define Xant:
a) Troll
it could be worse.

Xant, your derailing is noticeable though. I only keep replying because I felt you mean what you say at least half of the time.


So here is my answer to your question: You need to read Plato, because you will not understand Nietzsche. When you understand the basics - you move to something more complicated. You don't build a rocket, before understanding Newton's 500 year old theory of gravitation. And to have just a little bit wider view on Syria, it would help to read about other civil wars - it might not be relevant, but it will not hurt, even if it is 2000 year old Roman civil war.
this.

things are never as easy as one likes to paint them. reading up on related topics or past thoughts is always helpful, as it's not that important what happens now, but why it happens and how it came to be (which includes the what to a certain extend, and puts it into perspective). imagine repairing a PC: you can not fix it to last until you know why and how, or find someone who knows. attacking it with a nerf gun probably won't help. (the equivalent of bombing a country [with an oil pipeline] for humanitarian reasons, instead of asking how the problems were created, and looking for constructive solutions to those causes [-- and keeping the hands off the frickin pipeline, just saying])


[edit: more precise wording]
[edit2: one more point covered]
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 12:55:54 pm by Kajia »

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Offline Xant

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #402 on: September 14, 2013, 04:59:07 pm »
0
you want a practical application?
best ice cream - best is an abstract term that only really makes sense when giving an opinion. I can not see why and how your ice cream should be the best, I can not smell or taste best. you can't argue for the bestness of your ice cream, because that is sense-less
rain outside - rain refers to some worldy happening. it has a place and a time, you can examine it. I could verify if it is actually real, with my senses.
notice how the semantic meaning of sense-less actually makes sense? because you can tell if your senses aren't being used.

one practical application is to avoid such terms. "truth" is such a term.
That is not a good practical application, because terms like "truth" are useful and good. Things being true can also be verified with your senses. And "best" makes sense in a lot more contexts than when giving an opinion. If two people run a race and the other one always wins, he's best at running.


Quote
well, fine. to you bombing Syria means different things than to me, which still proves my point that we all have different associations. I hope you see that now.
Of course we all have different 'associations', but the differences are usually so small it really isn't worth it to make a 25-word sentence to describe bombing Syria when "bombing Syria" gets more or less the same point across. Unless you're having a metaconversation about "bombing Syria."

Quote
but somehow we do have a discussion about Syrian culture, right? I know it was me who brought it up, and it is relevant, because same as with Iraq, Vietnam, even Germany in two world wars, war in any country will result in losses you can hardly measure in human lives. things can not be understood seperate from another: history and culture and the ground people live on influence how they behave and react. if you attack it or disrespect it, people will hate you for it. it will (and it happens all over the place, in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.) create terrorism. the mere presence of the US troops and military bases in the middle east is an affront to Islamic people, because of their believes. we are unbelievers in holy lands.
of course it is also stimulated through secret weapon exports, but you probably know that yourself.
You said this: "when we mention Syria and bombing it, do we talk about the geographic Syria (land)? the anthropology of Syria (culture)? the Syrian people? their government?"
It's all included in "bombing Syria." No one thinks the Syrians float around in some sort of an empty void where only the Syrian people exist. Again, I think you're complicating it for the sake of complicating it.

Quote
I'm getting a litte impatient too, for all this derogatory and misleading talk about peoples you seem to have no respect for and interest in. frankly, I don't believe Iraq or Afghanistan invasions were in good intentions at all. and based on lies too. they were fought for oil and poppies, with the poor or desperate people dying on both sides.
violence breeds more violence.
there is a simple truth for you.
Violence only breeds more violence if not applied properly, so no, not a truth.


Quote
Xant, your derailing is noticeable though. I only keep replying because I felt you mean what you say at least half of the time.
Then you're noticing things that do not exist, because I haven't derailed anything.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Kajia

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #403 on: September 14, 2013, 08:46:16 pm »
0
Quote
one practical application is to avoid such terms [for stated reasons]. "truth" is such a term.
That is not a good practical application, because terms like "truth" are useful and good.
do you even logic?
it's like:
"avoid to throw furniture at people"
"but furniture is still useful and good!"

arguing with you about truth just became a waste of time.

Quote
I haven't derailed anything.
don't like the word? we managed to sidetrack with the truth issue. k, thx.

Quote
Violence only breeds more violence if not applied properly, ...
tell me how you properly "apply violence" without causing some sort of backlash.

and also tell me what problems the precise bombing of targets in Syria is supposed to solve, if done right.

yet another question: after your concept of universal morality (where there is objective things (like killing people) that are either wrong or right), and using the Categorical imperative, when US forces have the right to attack Syrian ground, Syrian forces and allied ones are allowed the right to defend the country, right?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 08:51:05 pm by Kajia »

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Offline Xant

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #404 on: September 14, 2013, 09:18:12 pm »
-1
That is not a good practical application, because terms like "truth" are useful and good.
do you even logic?
it's like:
"avoid to throw furniture at people"
"but furniture is still useful and good!"

arguing with you about truth just became a waste of time.
Just because you make argument-by-assertion logical fallacies doesn't mean what you say is true.

So indeed, a better analogy would be:
K: "There is an invisible pink dragon in my garage."
X: "There is no invisible pink dragon in your garage."
K: "OMG DO U EVEN LOGIC"

Quote
don't like the word? we managed to sidetrack with the truth issue. k, thx.
Yes, we, not I.

Quote
tell me how you properly "apply violence" without causing some sort of backlash.
Alright. Random guy pushes you. You punch him, knocking him out, and then walk away.

Quote
and also tell me what problems the precise bombing of targets in Syria is supposed to solve, if done right.

yet another question: after your concept of universal morality (where there is objective things (like killing people) that are either wrong or right), and using the Categorical imperative, when US forces have the right to attack Syrian ground, Syrian forces and allied ones are allowed the right to defend the country, right?
I never said precise bombing of targets in Syria was supposed to solve any problems.

Of course the Syrian forces and allied ones are allowed to defend their country.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.