Author Topic: To our fellow muricans  (Read 25846 times)

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Offline Xant

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #360 on: September 12, 2013, 05:58:16 pm »
0
You never leave the comfortable world of concepts, do you? In the real world, there are no truths, only observations.
Yes, observations about truths.... if I observe that my shoelaces are tied, I update my belief that my shoelaces are tied, and then shoelaces=tied is the Truth. There are truths in the real world and we learn them by observation.

If the concept is still causing you trouble, I suggest reading this.
http://yudkowsky.net/rational/the-simple-truth

This is exactly why I never bothered to even consider studying philosophy. Sounds like people wasting time thinking about bullshit 0.005% of the population cares about. If I say Syrian people, why would anyone think of livestock? Last time I checked people is a word assigned to humans not animals. Anyone questioning that definition of people is a complete fucking tool.

The thing about philosophers is that their work has some relevance in the world they currently inhabit. A couple of generations later and their work is either irrelevant or outdated.

This is not a failing of philosophy, it's a failing of Kajia. "Philosophy" is also an extremely big umbrella word. Some of it is what you say, some of it isn't. Rationalism is the modern philosophy.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 06:07:52 pm by Xant »
Meaning lies as much
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Offline EponiCo

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #361 on: September 12, 2013, 06:17:38 pm »
+2
"The sentence 'snow is white' is true if and only if snow is white."

This sentence (and the others like it) defines a property of true statements. It does however not prove that there are true statements. Lets make a list of all true statements using the sentence you just quoted (and others like it) as a criterion. Let's say every sentence that the quote applies to is true (*). So we get: snow is white, snow is black ... and everything else. This makes no sense. Let's do the opposite and only accept sentences are true for which the quote doesn't work. We find that there isn't a single true statement.
That's basically just a complicated way of saying statements like these are completely useless outside of their specific context. It's perhaps useful to differentiate from other theories of linguistics that would say "the sentence 'I am hungry' is true if someone makes me a sandwhich whenever I say it" or something else) but that's that.
In any case, assuming that there are true statements, how'd you actually know which ones are? Since if you can't find a rock solid criterion even if there is "a truth" still noone would actually know. They'd believe in something which is coincidentally true.


(*) But is the quote itself really true?
(click to show/hide)

Offline Xant

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #362 on: September 12, 2013, 06:19:51 pm »
0
This sentence (and the others like it) defines a property of true statements. It does however not prove that there are true statements. Lets make a list of all true statements using the sentence you just quoted (and others like it) as a criterion. Let's say every sentence that the quote applies to is true (*). So we get: snow is white, snow is black ... and everything else. This makes no sense. Let's do the opposite and only accept sentences are true for which the quote doesn't work. We find that there isn't a single true statement.
That's basically just a complicated way of saying statements like these are completely useless outside of their specific context. It's perhaps useful to differentiate from other theories of linguistics that would say "the sentence 'I am hungry' is true if someone makes me a sandwhich whenever I say it" or something else) but that's that.
In any case, assuming that there are true statements, how'd you actually know which ones are? Since if you can't find a rock solid criterion even if there is "a truth" still noone would actually know. They'd believe in something which is coincidentally true.


(*) But is the quote itself really true?
(click to show/hide)

http://lesswrong.com/lw/rs/created_already_in_motion/

Dynamic:  When the belief pool contains "X is fuzzle", send X to the action system.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline EponiCo

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #363 on: September 12, 2013, 06:30:15 pm »
0
http://lesswrong.com/lw/rs/created_already_in_motion/

Dynamic:  When the belief pool contains "X is fuzzle", send X to the action system.

Is this your reply to the spoiler or to the nonspoilered text?

Offline Swaggart

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #364 on: September 12, 2013, 06:31:50 pm »
0
Everything else is getting outdated even sooner. If you read a 2500 year old works of Plato, and do not find any wisdom i them, it is you, who are going to be "a complete fucking tool".

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”

As for Syria, I don't really want to share my opinions, as they will probably be unpopular - listen to BBC world radio, they have a good coverage, and they seem to let both sides of Syrian civil war speak.

Yes you can find wisdom in Plato's books. Then again, you can also find wisdom in Mein Kampf.

Also, quoting other people is a sign that one can't conceive intellectual though of their own.

Offline Xant

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #365 on: September 12, 2013, 06:41:05 pm »
0
Is this your reply to the spoiler or to the nonspoilered text?
Spoiler, obviously.

Achilles:  If you have [(A⋀B)→Z], and you also have (A⋀B), then surely you have Z.
Tortoise:  Oh!  You mean <{(A⋀B)⋀[(A⋀B)→Z]}→Z>, don't you?
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Sarpton

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #366 on: September 12, 2013, 07:23:17 pm »
+2
Just pointing out I pray we (the US) goes to war.  Because war is profitable for me personally, I don't care abut the reasons behind it at all.   This is not to be edgy or bad ass but there are many vested interests in any war and to ignore them is foolish.   Wars now are fought to make people money not to free or enslave anyone.   The US goes to war I make 500$ USD a day for doing what I do best.  And if some no name slob makes that kind of money what do you think the people that hire me make, or the people that hire my company?

War is about money, simple fact.  If the US goes to war, people get paid.  If the US doesn't invade different people get paid.  It's stupid to think it is anything more than money and who gets the most.
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Offline Christo

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #367 on: September 12, 2013, 07:24:36 pm »
+2
Just pointing out I pray we (the US) goes to war.  Because war is profitable for me personally, I don't care abut the reasons behind it at all.   This is not to be edgy or bad ass but there are many vested interests in any war and to ignore them is foolish.   Wars now are fought to make people money not to free or enslave anyone.   The US goes to war I make 500$ USD a day for doing what I do best.  And if some no name slob makes that kind of money what do you think the people that hire me make, or the people that hire my company?

War is about money, simple fact.  If the US goes to war, people get paid.  If the US doesn't invade different people get paid.  It's stupid to think it is anything more than money and who gets the most.

What the fuck man.

May I ask, you work for a defense contractor or something? Or just trolling us?
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Offline Prpavi

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #368 on: September 12, 2013, 07:30:02 pm »
+2
Just pointing out I pray we (the US) goes to war.  Because war is profitable for me personally, I don't care abut the reasons behind it at all.   This is not to be edgy or bad ass but there are many vested interests in any war and to ignore them is foolish.   Wars now are fought to make people money not to free or enslave anyone.   The US goes to war I make 500$ USD a day for doing what I do best.  And if some no name slob makes that kind of money what do you think the people that hire me make, or the people that hire my company?

War is about money, simple fact.  If the US goes to war, people get paid.  If the US doesn't invade different people get paid.  It's stupid to think it is anything more than money and who gets the most.

You are so detatched from reality of being a human being I really feel sorry for you.
And now he can't play because of "common sense" and he doesn't understand how this common sense works
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Offline Sarpton

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #369 on: September 12, 2013, 07:30:37 pm »
0
I work in the security sector, yes. 

 
You are so detatched from reality of being a human being I really feel sorry for you.

And I feel sorry for you that you think it is about anything but money.   You really think anyone in charge cares about "the people"?  No, they care about profit margins, they care about expenditure of resources to meet mission guidelines.  Only politicians care about the reasons behind any conflict and they only care about what works for them at the time.  I'll tell you, if you really honestly think that wars/conflicts are fought for any reason but money you are childish.   Every bullet fired and every bandage applied costs and those costs go up.   The food people ship to help is more often than not left to rot on docks, the items we buy to rebuild infrastructure dragged out to rust in the deserts because they came for infadels.  But you can bet they cost tax payers, they cost donations.  Someone made money knowing full well they would go to waste.

 
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 07:46:33 pm by necron232 »
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Offline Christo

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #370 on: September 12, 2013, 07:34:46 pm »
+2
Nobody thinks about it like that, but it doesn't change how you write about this topic like a cyborg and vulture, which is just outright spineless and disgusting
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Offline zagibu

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #371 on: September 12, 2013, 07:36:27 pm »
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Yes, observations about truths.... if I observe that my shoelaces are tied, I update my belief that my shoelaces are tied, and then shoelaces=tied is the Truth. There are truths in the real world and we learn them by observation.

It is YOUR truth, yes. A subjective truth, also known as an opinion.
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 Why am I beswung by sharpe and pointed utensyls?

Offline Sarpton

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #372 on: September 12, 2013, 07:49:58 pm »
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Nobody thinks about it like that, but it doesn't change how you write about this topic like a cyborg and vulture, which is just outright spineless and disgusting

I don't think it's spineless, at all.  If it is offensive to you then that is your issue. 

Is my view base profiteering?  Sure.  Is it wrong? no I don't think so.  If you think differently then that is your right as human.  As it is my right to think you live without seeing what is infront of you.   If someone is going to profit from something why not you?  or Me?  Are your morals so strong that you would turn down 500$ for 8 hours of work checking ID cards?  What about 1500$ for just driving a guy in a buisness suit to the diner and back?   If so good for you but I live in teh real world where money walks, talks, and tells people what to do. 
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 07:54:52 pm by necron232 »
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Offline Xant

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #373 on: September 12, 2013, 07:55:34 pm »
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It is YOUR truth, yes. A subjective truth, also known as an opinion.
It's just your opinion that it's my opinion and a subjective truth. And your opinion is wrong.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Swaggart

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Re: To our fellow muricans
« Reply #374 on: September 12, 2013, 08:44:35 pm »
+2
I don't think it's spineless, at all.  If it is offensive to you then that is your issue. 

Is my view base profiteering?  Sure.  Is it wrong? no I don't think so.  If you think differently then that is your right as human.  As it is my right to think you live without seeing what is infront of you.   If someone is going to profit from something why not you?  or Me?  Are your morals so strong that you would turn down 500$ for 8 hours of work checking ID cards?  What about 1500$ for just driving a guy in a buisness suit to the diner and back?   If so good for you but I live in teh real world where money walks, talks, and tells people what to do.

When someone's makes a profit off of your suffering, we'll see if you will still have this attitude. Money talks, sure, but to think that the only way, or the best way for that matter, to make money is through war makes you below human scum.