Author Topic: X Rebirth  (Read 8116 times)

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Offline Tom Cruise

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X Rebirth
« on: August 20, 2013, 07:12:23 pm »
+3
Dont really know a whole lot about it except what they showed in the trailer because its a pretty new reveal.

BUT

From what they did show it looks pretty fucking awesome.

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Offline War_Ferret

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 11:31:23 am »
0
I read some info on their homepage several months ago.
I guess the overall approach is to "restart" the X-series in a much more accessible and less complicated way - without sacrificing the depth (economy, building, controlling AI etc.) of the originals. Well, I believe that when I see it. There will be only one playable ship this time. At least you can also upgrade and have crew members on that ship. If that's a good trade, we'll see.
I'm not sure if you can even still own and command AI ships.

I will take a close look at it on release and decide wether it's still X enough for me.

Offline Kafein

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2013, 12:11:35 pm »
+2
What...


Commanding a fleet was the fucking point of X3

Offline chadz

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2013, 12:26:48 pm »
0
Commanding a fleet was the fucking point of X3

And I'm sick of them just redoing their previous game over and over again with 5% more content.

This sounds good to me. Try something new. I always felt that the individual ship stuff in the X universe didnt matter at all for the game.

Offline War_Ferret

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2013, 04:53:59 pm »
0
What sounds good is the thing about the ship interior, which you can move in and where NPCs will also be found.
But somehow I doubt this will actually be any relevant for the gameplay. Would be sweet if we had a little bit of FTL here - systems breaking, fires, breaches, intruders and, most of all, a crew that doesn't just serve cosmetical puposes and can move dynamically around the ship and actually do stuff.
I'm afraid though, your own ship is the only interior you will get to see, even though you can have a boarding crew apparently. And with just one player ship, there probably aren't even different "layouts" either.
Anyway, crew and interiors is definitely a concept I would like to see fleshed out in future expansions/sequels.

Regarding a possible player fleet, I checked the site again, but there's only talk about launching drones from your ship and carrier-type ships to be commanded. So... still not sure what to make of that. It doesn't seem possible to have a couple of wingmen following you around, for example.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 05:29:27 pm by War_Ferret »

Offline Tom Cruise

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 11:19:33 pm »
0
What...


Commanding a fleet was the fucking point of X3

Well you can do that and now add on other careers like the pirate, or trader, or fleet captain, etc. Also the entering towns and recruiting your crew and all that seems like its adds a nice flavor of rpg elements and upgrading shit.
And I'm sick of them just redoing their previous game over and over again with 5% more content.

This sounds good to me. Try something new. I always felt that the individual ship stuff in the X universe didnt matter at all for the game.

Hows Project Asinus mate?????
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Offline Kafein

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2013, 03:20:14 am »
0
Mmh I think I understood this incorrectly, not switching ships yourself isn't a huge problem and it seems you still can have stations and set up transporters to sell the products.

Anyway, sounds like they are going after a wider audience this time.


And I'm sick of them just redoing their previous game over and over again with 5% more content.

This sounds good to me. Try something new. I always felt that the individual ship stuff in the X universe didnt matter at all for the game.

They still have lots of effort to do in many areas beyond content. Frankly, X3 with a convenient way to travel fast (jumpdrives aren't), a proper tutorial, dialogues and stories that don't absolutely suck, balanced quests and deeper combat (taking ideas from games like FTL would be brilliant) is all I ask.

Offline Vodner

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2013, 04:41:49 am »
+1
While I'm a little worried about whether Rebirth will have as much depth as its predecessors, I'm also incredibly happy that they have scrapped everything they had and started from scratch.

I've been playing a lot of heavily modded X3AP the last few weeks, and there are a lot of glaring flaws that have been around since X2, and that I am hoping will be addressed in Rebirth:
  • The sodding UI. It becomes incredibly apparent how terrible the UI is when outfitting a carrier with 50+ fighters, or when trying to micromanage a fleet battle with 10+ capitals. Building enormous complexes without mods takes hours of mind-numbing tedium (order TL to dock, buy station, order TL to follow, access the freight inventory, build the station, set the location of the station, watch a 5-second animation, rinse, repeat 200 times).
  • The atrocious 'pathfinding'. The AI will always head straight at its target. If something gets in the way, then it moves away from the obstacle a random amount, then tries to head straight at its target again. Sometimes even this will fuck up, and the AI will just plow into an asteroid or a station. It is frustrating as all fuck to watch a capital ship do this during a fight. A group of capital ships will spend more time dodging each-other than actually engaging the enemy.
  • The fucking AI. Every single ship will try to repeatedly do strafing runs against its target - even capitals with super long-range weapons. This still applies if the target is a defenseless, immobile station. Better yet, the AI will often misjudge when to turn away from its target, and will slam into it. I have lost capital ships to stations this way.
  • The braindead MSCI scripting interface, and language. You don't type into it - you select every single command from a dropdown menu. You then set every single argument to the command via dropdown menus. The language itself is also awful. It is vaguely reminiscent of the old liner-editor based BASIC implementations (eg BASICA or GWBASIC), except that the MSCI interface is actually far worse than a line editor.
Honestly, the only reason I play X3 is because it is the only game that does what it does.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 05:01:27 am by Vodner »

Offline War_Ferret

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2013, 06:03:01 pm »
0
Fun fact: the whole game will be playable with an X360 controller...      :|

Offline Vodner

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2013, 06:12:46 pm »
0
Fun fact: the whole game will be playable with an X360 controller...      :|
So was X3:AP, if you didn't mind taking forever to navigate menus.

Hell, I played X2 with 90% of my stuff bound to a joystick.

Offline War_Ferret

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2013, 10:17:30 am »
0
A little off-topic, but how do TC and AP compare to X3? I stopped with X3, thinking the following games didn't really have anything new to offer. But now I feel like giving them a try (next time they go on steam sale) - probably because I've been playing lots of FTL recently. Is there more content, new features, a bigger universe? Can you side with factions now? Is the universe more dynamic than in X3?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 12:22:22 pm by War_Ferret »

Offline Kafein

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2013, 07:12:52 pm »
0
A little off-topic, but how do TC and AP compare to X3? I stopped with X3, thinking the following games didn't really have anything new to offer. But now I feel like giving them a try (next time they go on steam sale) - probably because I've been playing lots of FTL recently. Is there more content, new features, a bigger universe? Can you side with factions now? Is the universe more dynamic than in X3?

You can't really do any of that, but both TC and AP are better than reunion generally speaking. A few people prefer TC over AP for reasons unknown to me.

Offline War_Ferret

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 06:53:08 pm »
0
I read that you can't carry any trading goods on your ship :(


Offline Vodner

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 08:58:27 pm »
0
I read that you can't carry any trading goods on your ship :(
I think most people just ordered remote ships to do trading in X2/X3 anyways.

I'm more worried about them keeping the same braindead flight model from the previous games. IWar 2 showed that Newtonian flight physics (with toggleable computer assistance) can make for an amazing game.

Offline War_Ferret

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Re: X Rebirth
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 10:26:01 pm »
0
The chance there will be newtonian physics is non-existant if you ask me.

I am programming a little space strategy sim with nVidia PhysX myself, although I haven't been working on it in almost half a year. Anyway, I decided that I would use newtonian/realistic physics only for projectiles, rockets, guided missiles - basically everything except ships. The problems that arise with realistic physics in regard of manual ship control as well as ship AI for performing even the simplest tasks were too hard for me to tackle. Instead I gave them friction (only for linear, not angular velocity), so they wouldn't really need to worry about dealing with inertia and could basically just steer in their desired direction at all times. I mean, if you just want to reach a certain point as quickly as possible, that's easy, no matter what's your inertia. But if you want to keep formation, fly maneouvres at close range etc., it gets complicated. And then there is always the question how to deal with maximum velocity. Logically, you should be able to accelerate indefinitely. But that means it also takes forever to come to a halt or redirect your heading. Pretty complicated... sure it's possible, but it contradicts the approach that egosoft is taking with Rebirth.

For trading I also used to have one or two AI controlled transports, but I did move them manually and check prices for the sectors they were in, while trying to capture pirate ships myself. But I doubt that you can do even that in Rebirth. It's just a notion, but there is probably a reason with the underlying game mechanics why you can't have cargo anymore. Why would there be a restriction like this otherwise - only to annoy people? I don't know what that reason could be, but I'm starting to believe that trading might be even more simplified yet.