Author Topic: NA2  (Read 7033 times)

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Offline Jona

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Re: NA2
« Reply #105 on: August 12, 2013, 10:38:56 pm »
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18/21 w/ 5 power throw. I always like the way both Rusty and Turbo played (despite being totally opposite styles), and I couldn't pick which style I liked more. So I copied Rusty's (previous) build+PT with Turbo's gear.

Anyone that has faced me on the duel server can attest that I suck in any kind of 1v1, but I've probably played more siege than anyone else on NA, so I've learned a lot of siege-specific tricks that mask my suckage. One of them is to avoid you on the battlefield  :)

hurray, I finally know how to build my shielder next gen! Also, is your build finished at level 30, 31... or maybe not even until 32 or 33? Since You seem to have 6 IF 6 PS 5 PT 7 shield and... some unknown amount of athletics and WM. Then again you may have less IF and just all +3 armor.
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Offline Phew

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Re: NA2
« Reply #106 on: August 12, 2013, 10:41:52 pm »
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hurray, I finally know how to make my shielder next gen! Aldo, is your build finished at level 30, 31... or maybe not even until 32 or 33? Since You seem to have 6 IF 6 PS 5 PT 7 shield and... some unknown amount of athletics and WM. Then again you may have less IF and just all +3 armor.

Build isn't maxed until 35, I'm just missing the IF now@lvl 33.

Offline Jona

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Re: NA2
« Reply #107 on: August 12, 2013, 10:54:06 pm »
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Build isn't maxed until 35, I'm just missing the IF now@lvl 33.

[Inset very long whistle here]

Okay then... maybe I shall choose a more modest build for now... in all honesty shielding is just too boring for me. I was hoping to go hybrid thrower to spice it up a bit, but I would want to be useful at lvl 30... no way I would have the kind of patience to get past 31 as a shielder. The highest I've ever gone on my main is only lvl 32, and I actually enjoy that class!
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Offline Phew

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Re: NA2
« Reply #108 on: August 12, 2013, 11:31:22 pm »
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[Inset very long whistle here]

Okay then... maybe I shall choose a more modest build for now... in all honesty shielding is just too boring for me. I was hoping to go hybrid thrower to spice it up a bit, but I would want to be useful at lvl 30... no way I would have the kind of patience to get past 31 as a shielder. The highest I've ever gone on my main is only lvl 32, and I actually enjoy that class!

18/18 with 5PT is a great lvl 30 hybrid thrower build, just have to forgo ironflesh (most hybrid builds have to forgo ironflesh until really high level anyway).

Offline Jarold

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Re: NA2
« Reply #109 on: August 12, 2013, 11:40:18 pm »
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Since we are talking about shielder builds....

Next gen I might try 21/15 shielder with 5 power throw but I think I might not have enough wpf to split between my 1h and throwing because I would like to keep my 1h over 100.

I'm just wondering how you feel about 6 ps because I use a Nordic war sword which has 31c and I usually have 7 ps. 6 ps seems fine with your build phew because from your picture you seem to have a battle axe but my sword might not work so well.

Offline Jona

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Re: NA2
« Reply #110 on: August 13, 2013, 12:06:10 am »
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Since we are talking about shielder builds....

Next gen I might try 21/15 shielder with 5 power throw but I think I might not have enough wpf to split between my 1h and throwing because I would like to keep my 1h over 100.

I'm just wondering how you feel about 6 ps because I use a Nordic war sword which has 31c and I usually have 7 ps. 6 ps seems fine with your build phew because from your picture you seem to have a battle axe but my sword might not work so well.

I have limited experience (2 gens) as a shielder, but I feel that 7 PS is kind of what you need unless you have a +3 hard-hitting sword. First gen i was 18-18, this gen I am 21-15. While I miss the extra speed, I definitely feel like I can dish out some damage this time around. However, with an axe it might all be very different. I have only used the broad one handed for a short while, and it definitely has a lot more cutting power than any nordic sword. However the axe is harder to use with only 5 athletics since it is so short by comparison.

So basically, if you want to feel useless against tincans, 6 PS is okay. If you want to feel like you might be doing damage to tincans, 7 PS is preferable. One time in siege, I literally got so bored of beating up some tincan 2h who couldnt block that I just walked away and fought other guys. Had already hit him roughly 12 times, with nearly half of those glancing. Then again, with the tweaked animations 1handers pretty much got buffed so it might be more tolerable to use less PS.
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Offline rustyspoon

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Re: NA2
« Reply #111 on: August 13, 2013, 01:55:42 am »
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Since we are talking about shielder builds....

Next gen I might try 21/15 shielder with 5 power throw but I think I might not have enough wpf to split between my 1h and throwing because I would like to keep my 1h over 100.

I'm just wondering how you feel about 6 ps because I use a Nordic war sword which has 31c and I usually have 7 ps. 6 ps seems fine with your build phew because from your picture you seem to have a battle axe but my sword might not work so well.

I've used 6 PS as a 1-hander for a long, long, time. PS scales terribly with 1-handers in general due to low initial damage. To really do damage as a 1-hander, it's all about abusing speed bonus and held attacks.

One of my alts has 5 PS and an unloomed short Espada and I have no problems damaging people with him.
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Offline dontgothere

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Re: NA2
« Reply #112 on: August 13, 2013, 02:01:54 am »
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As an NA player, I find myself utterly confused...

Tydeus is confused about people who don't like the way CRPG has gone. Big surprise! Great job as admin, btw. I'm sure you'll be one for a long, long time.

Offline San

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Re: NA2
« Reply #113 on: August 13, 2013, 02:16:24 am »
+2
I feel that you need a +3 1h sword, but you should do fine with 6PS and 33+ cut without feeling overly weak. Also, the tweaked animations makes it much easier to put in a full speed right swing, which deals tons of damage with good athletics.

Rusty is correct. The damage difference isn't really all too different without going to the extremes, but the amount of damage taken is quite noticeable. Bulk + good damage without needing the speed bonus is simpler, but higher athletics can run away and switch from target to target much quicker. You can also carry a blunt/pierce weapon sidearm, and most of them work just fine at +0.

My current strategy with an agility build is to get such high athletics, that I can wear even more armor (7.5 weight = 3agi+1ath) and still remain fast. Due to the way armor works, the higher soak combined with moving towards the end of my opponent's swings allows me to survive a good number of attacks. Arrows also do much less damage, not so much for bolts, though. Running head first into a held swing would of course obliterate me, however, so caution is one of the elements there.


About NA2, I just think that it needs a lot of minor adjustments. I dislike having to deal with low health when defending. I don't like the random spawns that could save or curse your team. I doubt gimmicks will work; there needs to be additions that really adds depth to the game mode. Artificial rewards bonuses like 1.5x more exp might also help. At this point, I think NA siege is desperate enough to be a little more experimental/ take some advice from its community.

Offline Nightingale

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Re: NA2
« Reply #114 on: August 13, 2013, 02:54:36 am »
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I was on there for about 2 hours the other day till the population died off. I know for a fact the day before that Me and Tydeus were on siege. When the population hits about 20 and I notice it I'll join. Like it has been said in this thread, I think the main issue with NA 2 is not enough people play it.

Offline dontgothere

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Re: NA2
« Reply #115 on: August 13, 2013, 02:57:40 am »
+1
I think the main issue with NA 2 is not enough people play it.

That's a symptom, not a cause, and the fact that your logic stops at such an early stage in the process of problem-solving is proof that somebody with better decision-making skills has to dig into the mess that is the badmin/dumdev crew and wake some fuckers up for eggs and bac'y.

Offline dontgothere

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Re: NA2
« Reply #116 on: August 13, 2013, 03:12:27 am »
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I mean holy shit, just look at this thread, the closest anybody ever got to owning-up to their mistakes was when Fips said that they were "aware of problems", and even that's a cop-out. Apart from that, to hear the badmins and devs talk, you'd think they believed every decision they made was perfection. They've never done anything wrong, of course, and if we're upset with the way things are then it's just a case of us not "appreciating them" enough. About the best we can expect is that sometimes they'll "take back" a bad tweak, eventually. When was the last time things worked the other way, and a good idea actually struggled its way up from the community into the game? When did feedback ever matter except in the rare instances it managed to bother a certain number of the devs' European guildmates?

chadz did this mod better in the old days, before all these other too-many-cooks came along and spoiled the soup. I don't get what happened. It's like he recruited people on to get some technical assistance, which they were good at, but then he made the mistake of letting them decide things too. Now the mod is defined by the newbie-devs'/badmins' personal biases and friendships, without any regard for how it started, what its competition is, what the biggest gameplay issues really are, or how the changes being made affect the server populations.

NA2 is dead for the same reason that we have a "nudge attack" but no fix for 1H bugs/balance.

Offline Nightingale

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Re: NA2
« Reply #117 on: August 13, 2013, 04:25:59 am »
+5
Here I thought you were a pretty cool guy artie. You insult people that are trying to help, you bitch at the new scene editors as if they have anything to do with what happened to siege, you bitch at admins as if they have any control over what happens to siege. We literally have zero control over where players want to play... unless you suggest we brain wash people and tell them to play siege... we'll get right on that.

I'd like to Apologize to Fips and Teeth for Artie's behavior, please continue trying to help siege. I'd really like to see that server make a come back.

btw Artie, 1h bugs and balance issues were addressed recently *seems to be fixed too.*
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 04:30:49 am by Nightingale »

Offline Jona

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Re: NA2
« Reply #118 on: August 13, 2013, 05:32:07 am »
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My current strategy with an agility build is to get such high athletics, that I can wear even more armor (7.5 weight = 3agi+1ath) and still remain fast. Due to the way armor works, the higher soak combined with moving towards the end of my opponent's swings allows me to survive a good number of attacks.

Is that how armor and athletics work? Every 7.5 weight = 3agi + 1 ath (or really just one ath, depending how you look at it)? I've been meaning to find that info out for some time... So wearing ~16.8 weight total armor and having 8 ath would give me an effective ath of 5.76 (+ some agi bonus)? Does weapon weight contribute to this?

By the way, where does someone go to find out that sort of thing? You also mentioned heavy armors and soak... care to point me in the right direction?

Thanks, I've been meaning to find out more about the behind-the-scenes mechanics of the game for a while now. 
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Offline Vodner

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Re: NA2
« Reply #119 on: August 13, 2013, 05:48:35 am »
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By the way, where does someone go to find out that sort of thing? You also mentioned heavy armors and soak... care to point me in the right direction?

Thanks, I've been meaning to find out more about the behind-the-scenes mechanics of the game for a while now.
Damage formula is here. Soak and reduce multipliers can be found in the cRPG 'module.ini'. Note that the randomness in soak/reduce was removed (or greatly reduced, not sure which) a couple patches ago.